Future mind cannot be
grasped!
Shobogenzo
�The place where living beings enjoy themselves�115 has
been made into �eternal presence�116 as �my Pure Land which is immor-
tal,�117 and this also we must meticulously perform as �original practice. �118
Do we realize in practice that �wholeheartedly wanting to meet
Buddha�119 is about ourselves, or do we realize in practice that it is about
others? There are times when the truth is realized as an �individual body,�120
and there are times when the truth is realized as the �whole body. �121
�Appearance together on Vulture Peak�122 comes from �not begrudg-
ing one's own body and life. �123 There is disclosure, display, realization, and
entering in �constantly abiding here preaching the Dharma,�124 and there is
disclosure, display, realization, and entering in, �as an expedient method,
manifesting nirvana. �125 In the state of �being close yet still failing to see,�126
who could not believe in understanding of non-understanding by �whole-
heartedness�? 127
The place that is �always filled with gods and human beings�128 is just
the land of Sakyamuni Buddha and of Vairocana,129 �the eternally peaceful
and bright land�130 itself. We who naturally belong in the �four lands�131 are
just living in �the Buddha's land� which is �real oneness. �132 When we look
at �atoms�133 that does not mean we fail to see �the world of Dharma. � When
we are experiencing the world of Dharma,134 that does not mean we fail to
experience atoms. When the buddhas experience the world of Dharma, they
do not exclude us from the experience, which is �good at the beginning, mid-
dle, and end. �
This being so, the present is the �form as it is� of the state of experi-
ence, and even �alarm, doubt, and fear�135 are nothing other than reality as
it is. With the Buddha's wisdom, this [fear] is only the difference between
looking at atoms and sitting in atoms. When we are seated in the world of
Dharma it is not wide, and when we are sitting in atoms, they are not confin-
ing; therefore, without maintaining and relying upon [reality as it is], we
cannot sit, but when we are maintaining and relying upon [reality as it is],
there is no alarm or doubt about width and confinement. This is because we
have �perfectly realized� the �body� and the �energy� of the Flower of
Dharma. So should we think that our own �form� and �nature� now are �orig-
inally practicing� in this world of Dharma, or should we think that they are
�originally practicing� in atoms? They are without alarm and doubt, and
without fear; they are simply the profound and eternal state which is origi-
nal practice as the Flower of Dharma turning. This seeing atoms and seeing
the world of Dharma is beyond conscious action and conscious considera-
tion. Conscious consideration, and conscious action too, should learn Flower
of Dharma consideration, and should learn Flower of Dharma action. When
we hear of �disclosure, display, realization, and entering,� we should under-
stand them in terms of [the Buddha's] �desire to cause living beings. �136 In
other words, that which, as the Flower of Dharma turning, discloses the
Buddha's wisdom, we should learn by displaying the Buddha's wisdom.
That which, as the Flower of Dharma turning, realizes the Buddha's wis-
dom, we should learn by entering the Buddha's wisdom. That which, as the
Flower of Dharma turning, displays the Buddha's wisdom, we should learn
by realizing the Buddha's wisdom. For each such instance of the Flower of
Dharma turning, as disclosure, display, realizing, and entering, we can have
ways of perfect realization. In sum, this wisdom-paramita137 of the buddha-
tathagatas is the Dharma Flower's turning, which is wide, great, profound,
and eternal. �Affirmation�138 is just our own disclosure of the Buddha's wis-
dom; it is the Flower of Dharma's turning which is never imparted by oth-
ers. This, then, is [the reality of] �When the mind is in the state of delusion,
the Flower of Dharma turns. �
[62] �When the mind is in the state of realization, we turn the Flower
of Dharma� describes turning the Flower of Dharma. That is to say, when
the Flower of Dharma has �perfectly exhausted�139 the energy with which it
turns us, the �energy as it is�140 with which we turn ourselves will, in turn,
be realized. This realization is to turn the Flower of Dharma. Though the
former turning is, even now, without cease, we, reversely, are naturally turn-
ing the Flower of Dharma. Though we have not finished donkey business,
horse business will still come in. 141 [Here] there exists �sole reliance on the
one great purpose� as �real appearance at this place. �142 The multitudes of
the thousandfold world that �spring out of the earth�143 have long been great
honored saints of the Flower of Dharma144 but they spring out of the earth
being turned by themselves and they spring out of the earth being turned by
circumstances. 145 In turning the Flower of Dharma we should not only real-
ize springing out of the earth; in turning the Flower of Dharma we should
also realize springing out of space. 146 We should know with the Buddha's
wisdom not only earth and space but also springing out of the Flower of
Dharma itself. In general, in the time of the Flower of Dharma, inevitably,
�the father is young and the son old. �147 It is neither that the son is not the
son, nor that the father is not the father; we should just learn that the son is
old and the father young. Do not imitate �the disbelief of the world�148 and
be surprised. [Even] the disbelief of the world is the time of the Flower of
Dharma. This being so, in turning the Flower of Dharma we should realize
the �one time� in which �the Buddha is living. �149 Turned by disclosure, dis-
play, realization, and entering, we spring out of the earth; and turned by the
Buddha's wisdom, we spring out of the earth. At the time of this turning the
Flower of Dharma, �mental realization�150 exists as the Flower of Dharma,
and the Flower of Dharma exists as mental realization. 151 For another exam-
ple, the meaning of �the downward direction� is just �the inside of space. �152
This �downward,� and this �space,� are just the turning of the Flower of
Dharma, and are just the lifetime of the Buddha. We should realize, in turn-
ing the Flower of Dharma, that the Buddha's lifetime, the Flower of Dharma,
the world of Dharma, and the wholehearted state, are realized as �down-
ward,� and realized also as �space. � Thus, �downward space� describes just
the realization of turning the Flower of Dharma. In sum, at this moment, by
turning the Flower of Dharma we can cause the three kinds of grass to exist,
and by turning the Flower of Dharma we can cause the two kinds of trees to
exist. We should not expect [this] to be a state of awareness, and we should
not wonder whether it is a state without awareness. When we turn ourselves
and �initiate bodhi,�153 that is just �the southern quarter. �154 This realization
of the truth is originally present on Vulture Peak, which convenes as an order
in the southern quarter. Vulture Peak is always present in our turning the
Flower of Dharma. There are buddha lands of the ten directions that con-
vene as an order in space, and this is an individual body155 turning the Flower
of Dharma. When we realize it, in turning the Flower of Dharma, as already
the buddha lands of the ten directions, there is no place into which an atom
could enter. There is turning the Flower of Dharma as �matter just being the
immaterial,�156 which is beyond �either disappearance or appearance. �157
There is turning the Flower of Dharma as �the immaterial just being mat-
ter,�158 which may be �absence of life and death. �159 We cannot call it �being
in the world�;160 and how could it only be in a process of �extinction�? 161
When [a person] is a �close friend�162 to us, we are also a �close friend� to
that person. We must not forget to bow to and to work for a �close friend�;
therefore, we must take care to perfectly realize moments of giving �the pearl
in the topknot�163 and of giving �the pearl in the clothes. �164 There is turn-
ing the Flower of Dharma in the presence �before the Buddha� of a �trea-
sure stupa,�165 whose �height is five hundred yojanas. �166 There is turning
the Flower of Dharma in the �Buddha sitting inside the stupa,�167 whose
extent is �two hundred and fifty yojanas. � There is turning the Flower of
Dharma in springing out from the earth and abiding in the earth, [in which
state] mind is without restriction and matter is without restriction. There is
turning the Flower of Dharma in springing out from the sky and abiding in
the earth, which is restricted by the eyes and restricted by the body. 168 Vul-
ture Peak exists inside the stupa, and the treasure stupa exists on Vulture
Peak. The treasure stupa is a treasure stupa in space, and space makes space
for the treasure stupa. 169 The eternal buddha inside the stupa takes his seat
alongside the buddha of Vulture Peak, and the buddha of Vulture Peak expe-
riences the state of experience as the buddha inside the stupa. 170 When the
buddha of Vulture Peak enters the state of experience inside the stupa, while
object and subject on Vulture Peak [remain] just as they are, he enters into
the turning of the Flower of Dharma. When the buddha inside the stupa
springs out on Vulture Peak, while still of the land of eternal buddhas, while
still �long extinct,�171 he springs out. �Springing out,� and �entering into the
turning,� are not to be learned under common people and the two vehicles,
[but] should follow turning of the Flower of Dharma. �Eternal extinction�
is an ornament of real experience that adorns the state of buddha. �Inside the
stupa,� �before the Buddha,� �the treasure stupa,� and �space� are not of
Vulture Peak; they are not of the world of Dharma; they are not a halfway
stage; and they are not of the whole world. Nor are they concerned with only
a �concrete place in the Dharma. �172 They are simply �different from think-
ing. �173 There is turning the Flower of Dharma either in �manifesting the
body of Buddha and preaching the Dharma for others�174 or in manifesting
this body and preaching the Dharma for others. Or turning the Flower of
Dharma is the manifestation of Devadatta. 175 Or there is turning the Flower
of Dharma in the manifestation of �to retreat also is fine. �176 Do not always
measure �the waiting, with palms held together and [faces] looking up,�177
as �sixty minor kalpas. �178 Even if the length of �wholehearted waiting�179
is condensed into just a few countless kalpas, still it will be impossible to
fathom the �buddha-wisdom. �180 As how much buddha-wisdom should we
see a wholehearted mind that is waiting? Do not see this turning the Flower
of Dharma only as �the bodhisattva way practiced in the past. �181 Wherever
the Flower of Dharma is a total order the virtue is that of turning the Flower
of Dharma, [and it is expressed] as, �The Tathagata preaches the Great Vehi-
cle today. �182 [When] the Flower of Dharma just now is the Flower of Dharma,
it is �neither sensed nor recognized,�183 and at the same time it is �beyond
knowing� and �beyond understanding. �184 This being so, �five hundred
[ink]drop [kalpas]�185 are a brief thousandth [of an instant] of turning the
Flower of Dharma; they are the Buddha's lifetime being proclaimed by each
moment of red mind.
[70] In conclusion, in the hundreds of years since this sutra was trans-
mitted into China, to be turned as the Flower of Dharma, very many people,
here and there, have produced their commentaries and interpretations. Some,
moreover, have attained the Dharma state of an eminent person by relying
on this sutra. But no one has grasped the point of �the Flower of Dharma
turning,� or mastered the point of �turning the Flower of Dharma,� in the
manner of our Founding Patriarch, the eternal buddha of Sokei. Now that
we have heard these [points] and now that we have met it, we have experi-
enced the meeting of eternal buddha with eternal buddha; how could [this]
not be the land of eternal buddhas? How joyful it is! From kalpa to kalpa is
the Flower of Dharma, and from noon to night is the Flower of Dharma.
Because the Flower of Dharma is from kalpa to kalpa, and because the Flower
of Dharma is from noon to night, even though our own body and mind grows
strong and grows weak, it is just the Flower of Dharma itself. The reality
that exists �as it is� is �a treasure,�186 is �brightness,�187 is �a seat of truth,�188
is �wide, great, profound, and eternal,�189 is �profound, great, and everlast-
ing,�190 is �mind in delusion, the Flower of Dharma turning,� and is �mind
in realization, turning the Flower of Dharma,� which is really just the Flower
of Dharma turning the Flower of Dharma.
[72] When the mind is in the state of delusion, the Flower of Dharma
turns.
When the mind is in the state of realization, we turn the Flower of
Dharma.
If perfect realization can be like this,
The Flower of Dharma turns the Flower of Dharma.
When we �serve offerings to it, venerate, honor, and praise it�191 like
this, the Flower of Dharma is the Flower of Dharma.
Shobogenzo Hokke-ten-hokke
On a day of the summer retreat in the second year of Ninji192 I have written
this and presented it to Zen person Etatsu. I am profoundly glad that he is
going to leave home to practice the truth. Just to shave the head is a lovely
fact in itself. To shave the head and to shave the head again: this is to be a
true child of transcending family life. 193 Leaving home today is the �effects
and results as they are� of the �energy as it is,� which has turned the Flower
of Dharma hitherto. The Flower of Dharma today will inevitably bear the
Flower of Dharma's Flower of Dharma fruits. It is not Sakyamuni's Flower
of Dharma and it is not the buddhas' Flower of Dharma; it is the Flower of
Dharma of the Flower of Dharma. Though �form� is �as it is,� our habitual
turning of the Flower of Dharma has been suspended in the state of �neither
sensing nor recognizing. � But the Flower of Dharma now is manifesting
itself afresh in the state �beyond knowing and beyond understanding. � The
past was exhalation and inhalation, and the present is exhalation and inhala-
tion. This we should maintain and rely upon, as the Flower of Dharma that
is �too fine to think about. �194
Written by the founder of Kannondoriko sho-
horinji, a srama? a who entered Song [China]
and received the transmission of Dharma,
Dogen (his written seal).
The copying was completed at Hogyoji at
the beginning of spring195 in the third year
of Kagen. 196
---
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A Biography of Sakyamuni
The Lotus Sutra (Second Revised Edition)
The Sutra of Queen Srimala of the Lion's Roar
The Larger Sutra on Amitayus
The Sutra on Contemplation of Amitayus
The Smaller Sutra on Amitayus
The Bequeathed Teaching Sutra
The Vimalakirti Sutra
The Ullambana Sutra
The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment
The Vairocanabhisa? bodhi Sutra
The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch
The Baizhang Zen Monastic Regulations
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 2
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 3
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 4
Tannisho: Passages Deploring Deviations of Faith
Rennyo Shonin Ofumi: The Letters of Rennyo
The Sutra on the Profundity of Filial Love
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1 (? ? ? ? (1))
Chapter/Section: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 18
[Chapter Eighteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Former)
Translator's Note: Shin means �mind,� fu expresses negation, ka expresses
possibility, and toku means �to grasp. � Shin-fukatoku, or �mind cannot be
grasped,� is a quotation from the Diamond Sutra. On the basis of our com-
mon sense, we usually think that our mind can be grasped by our intellect,
and we are prone to think that our mind must exist somewhere substantially.
This belief also extends into the sphere of philosophy; Ren� Descartes, for
example, started his philosophical thinking with the premise �Cogito ergo
sum� or �I think therefore I am. � The German idealists, for example, Kant,
Fichte, von Schelling, and Hegel, also based their philosophies on the exis-
tence of mind. But in Buddhism we do not have confidence in the existence
of mind. Buddhism is a philosophy of action, or a philosophy of the here and
now; in that philosophy, mind cannot exist independently of the external
world. In other words, Buddhism says that all existence is the instantaneous
contact between mind and the external world. Therefore it is difficult for us
to grasp our mind independently of the external world. In short, Buddhist
theory cannot support belief in the independent existence of mind. In this
chapter, Master Dogen preached that mind cannot be grasped, explaining a
famous Buddhist story about a conversation between Master Tokusan Senkan
and an old woman selling rice cakes.
[75] Sakyamuni Buddha says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present mind
cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �1
This is what the Buddhist Patriarch has mastered in practice. Inside can-
not be grasped, it has scooped out and brought here the caves2 of the past,
present, and future. At the same time it has utilized the cave of [the Buddhist
Patriarch] himself, and the meaning of �self� here is �mind cannot be grasped. �
The present thinking and discrimination is �mind cannot be grasped. � The
whole body utilizing the twelve hours is just �mind cannot be grasped. �
[76] After entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch, we understand
�mind cannot be grasped. � Before entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch,
we are without questions about, we are without assertions about, and we do
not see and hear �mind cannot be grasped. � Teachers of sutras and teachers
of commentaries, sravakas and pratyekabuddhas, have never seen it even
in a dream. Evidence of this is close at hand: Zen Master Tokusan Senkan,3
in former days, boasts that he has elucidated the Diamond Praj�a Sutra. 4
Sometimes he calls himself �Shu, King of the Diamond Sutra. �5 He is reputed
to be especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries,6 besides which he
[himself] has edited texts weighing twelve tan. 7 It appears that there is no
other lecturer to match him. [In fact,] however, he is the last in a line of lit-
erary Dharma teachers. Once, he hears that there is a supreme Buddha-
Dharma, received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and angered
beyond endurance he crosses mountains and rivers, carrying his sutras and
commentaries with him, until he comes upon the order of Zen Master Shin
of Ryutan. 8 On the way to that order, which he intends to join, he stops for
a rest. Then an old woman comes along, and she [also] stops for a rest by
the side of the road.
Then Lecturer [Sen]kan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �Why does the master wish to buy rice cakes? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy rice cakes to refresh my mind. �9
The old woman says, �What is that great load the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am now carrying is commentaries on the Diamond
Sutra. �
Hearing this insistence, the old woman says, �The old woman has a
question. Will the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I give you permission at once. You may ask whatever
you like. �
The old woman says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that
past mind cannot be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future
mind cannot be grasped. Which mind do you now intend somehow to refresh
with rice cakes? If the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice
cakes. If the master is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
Tokusan is dumbfounded at this: he does not know how he might politely
reply. The old woman just swings her sleeves10 and leaves. In the end, she
does not sell her rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it is for a com-
mentator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on
merely receiving one question from a humble old woman, to be defeated at
once and not even to manage a polite reply. Such things are due to the great
difference between [someone] who has met a true teacher and succeeded a
true teacher and heard the right Dharma, and [someone] who has never heard
the right Dharma or met a true teacher. This is when Tokusan first says, �A
rice cake painted in a picture cannot kill hunger. � Now, so they say, he has
received the Dharma from Ryutan.
[81] When we carefully consider this story of the meeting between the
old woman and Tokusan, Tokusan's lack of clarity in the past is audible
[even] now. Even after meeting Ryutan he might still be frightened of the
old woman. He is just a late learner, not an eternal buddha who has tran-
scended enlightenment. The old woman on this occasion shuts Tokusan's
mouth, but it is still difficult to decide that she is really a true person. 11 The
reason is that when she hears the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she thinks
only that mind cannot be got, or that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as
she does. If Tokusan were a stout fellow, he might have the power to exam-
ine and defeat the old woman. If he had examined and defeated her already,
it would also be apparent whether the old woman is in fact a true person.
Tokusan has not yet become Tokusan, and so whether the old woman is a
true person also is not yet apparent.
[82] That the mountain monks of the great kingdom of Song today, with
their patched robes and wide sleeves,12 idly laugh at Tokusan's inability to
answer, and praise the old woman's inspired wit, might be very unreliable
and stupid. For there is no absence of reasons to doubt the old woman: At the
point when Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does the old woman not
say to Tokusan, �Now the master is unable to say something, [so] go ahead
and ask [this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master
instead. � If she spoke like this, and if what she said to Tokusan after receiv-
ing his question were right in expression, it would be apparent that the old
woman really was a true person. She has questions, but she is without any
assertion. No one since ancient times has ever been called a true person with-
out asserting even a single word. We can see from Tokusan's past [experi-
ence] that idle boasting is useless, from beginning to end. We can know from
the example of the old woman that someone who has never expressed any-
thing cannot be approved. Let us see if we can say something in Tokusan's
place. Just as the old woman is about to question him as she does, Tokusan
should tell her at once, �If you are like this, then do not sell me your rice
cakes! � If Tokusan speaks like this, he might be an inspired practitioner.
Tokusan might ask the old woman, �Present mind cannot be grasped, past
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. Which mind
do you now intend to refresh with rice cakes? � If he questions her like this,
the old woman should say at once to Tokusan, �The master knows only that
rice cakes cannot refresh the mind. You do not know that mind refreshes
rice cakes, and you do not know that mind refreshes mind. � If she says this,
Tokusan will surely hesitate. Just at that time, she should take three rice
cakes and hand them over to Tokusan. Just as Tokusan goes to take them,
the old woman should say, �Past mind cannot be grasped! Present mind can-
not be grasped!
Future mind cannot be grasped! � Or if Tokusan does not
extend his hands to take them, she should take one of the rice cakes and strike
Tokusan with it, saying, �You spiritless corpse! Do not be so dumb! � When
she speaks like this if Tokusan has something to say [for himself], fine. If
he has nothing to say, the old woman should speak again for Tokusan. [But]
she only swings her sleeves and leaves. We cannot suppose that there is a
bee in her sleeve, either. Tokusan himself does not say, �I cannot say any-
thing. Please, old woman, speak for me. � So not only does he fail to say what
he should say, he also fails to ask what he should ask. It is pitiful that the
old woman and Tokusan, past mind and future mind, questions and asser-
tions, are solely in the state of �future mind cannot be grasped. � Generally,
even after this, Tokusan does not appear to have experienced any great enlight-
enment, but only the odd moment of violent behavior. 13 If he had studied
under Ryutan for a long time, the horns on his head might have touched
something and broken,14 and he might have met the moment in which the
pearl [under the black dragon's] chin15 is authentically transmitted. We see
merely that his paper candle was blown out,16 which is not enough for the
transmission of the torch. 17 This being so, monks who are learning in prac-
tice must always be diligent in practice. Those who have taken it easy are
not right. Those who were diligent in practice are Buddhist patriarchs. In
conclusion, �mind cannot be grasped� means cheerfully buying a painted
rice cake18 and munching it up in one mouthful.
Shobogenzo Shin-fukatoku
Preached to the assembly at Kannondoriko-
shohorinji, in the Uji district of Yoshu,19
during the summer retreat in the second year
of Ninji. 20
---
BDK English Tripitaka
Keyword
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Books
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BDK English Tripitaka
A Biography of Sakyamuni
The Lotus Sutra (Second Revised Edition)
The Sutra of Queen Srimala of the Lion's Roar
The Larger Sutra on Amitayus
The Sutra on Contemplation of Amitayus
The Smaller Sutra on Amitayus
The Bequeathed Teaching Sutra
The Vimalakirti Sutra
The Ullambana Sutra
The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment
The Vairocanabhisa? bodhi Sutra
The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch
The Baizhang Zen Monastic Regulations
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 2
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 3
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 4
Tannisho: Passages Deploring Deviations of Faith
Rennyo Shonin Ofumi: The Letters of Rennyo
The Sutra on the Profundity of Filial Love
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1 (? ? ? ? (1))
Chapter/Section: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 19
[Chapter Nineteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Latter)
Translator 's Note: The ninety-five�chapter edition of the Shobogenzo has
two chapters with the same title, Shin-fukatoku or Mind Cannot Be Grasped.
We usually discriminate between the two chapters with the words �the for-
mer,� and �the latter. � The contents of the two chapters are different, but
the meaning of the two chapters is almost the same. Furthermore, the end
of each chapter records the same date�the summer retreat in 1241. How-
ever, while the former chapter says �preached to the assembly,� this chap-
ter says �written. � So it may be that the former chapter was a shorthand
record of Master Dogen's preaching, and the latter was Master Dogen's draft
of his lecture. This is only a supposition, and scholars in future may be able
to find a more exact conclusion.
[89] �Mind cannot be grasped� is the buddhas; they have maintained it and
relied upon it as their own state of anuttara samyak sa? bodhi.
[90] The Diamond Sutra says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �
This is just the realized state of maintaining and relying upon �mind can-
not be grasped,� which is the buddhas themselves. They have maintained it
and relied upon it as �triple-world mind cannot be grasped� and as �all-dhar-
mas mind cannot be grasped. � The state of maintenance and reliance which
makes this clear is not experienced unless learned from buddhas and is not
authentically transmitted unless learned from patriarchs. To learn from bud-
dhas means to learn from the sixteen-foot body,1 and to learn from a single
stalk of grass. 2 To learn from the patriarchs means to learn from skin, ? esh,
bones, and marrow,3 and to learn from a face breaking into a smile. 4 The
import of this is that when we seek [the truth] under [a teacher who] has evi-
dently received the authentic transmission of the right Dharma-eye treasury,
who has received the legitimate one-to-one transmission of the state in which
the mind-seal of the buddhas and the patriarchs is directly accessible, then
without fail that [teacher's] bones and marrow, face and eyes, are transmit-
ted, and we receive body, hair, and skin. Those who do not learn the Buddha's
truth and who do not enter the room of a patriarch neither see nor hear nor
understand this. The method of asking about it is beyond them. They have
never realized the means to express it, even in a dream.
[92] Tokusan, in former days, when not a stout fellow, was an author-
ity on the Diamond Sutra. People of the time called him Shu, King of the
Diamond Sutra. Of more than eight hundred scholars, he is the king. Not
only is he especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries, he has also
edited texts weighing twelve tan. There is no lecturer who stands shoulder-
to-shoulder with him. In the story he hears that in the south a supreme truth
has been received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and so, car-
rying his texts, he travels across the mountains and rivers. He takes a rest by
the left of the road leading to Ryutan, and an old woman comes by.
Tokusan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �What does the master want to buy them for? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy some rice cakes to refresh my mind. �
The old woman says, �What is all that the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am carrying is commentaries on the Diamond Sutra. �
Hearing this, the old woman says, �The old woman has a question. Will
the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I permit it. You may ask whatever you like. �
She says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that past mind can-
not be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be
grasped. Which mind do you now intend to refresh with my rice cakes? If
the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice cakes. If the master
is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
At this, Tokusan was dumbfounded; he could not find any appropriate
reply. The old woman just swung her sleeves and left. In the end, she did
not sell any rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it was that a commen-
tator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on receiv-
ing one mere question from a humble old woman, promptly fell into defeat.
Such things are due to the great difference between those who have received
a master's transmission and those who have not received a master's trans-
mission, between those who visit the room of a true teacher and those who
do not enter the room of a true teacher. Hearing the words �cannot be grasped,�
[some] have simply understood that to grasp is equally impossible both for
the former group and for the latter group. They totally lack the vigorous
path. 5 Again, there are people who think that we say we cannot grasp it
because we are endowed with it originally. Such [thinking] has by no means
hit the target. This was when Tokusan first knew that rice cakes painted in
a picture cannot kill hunger, and understood that for Buddhist training it is
always necessary to meet a true person. He also understood that a person
who has been uselessly caught up in only sutras and texts is not able to acquire
real power. Eventually he visited Ryutan and realized the way of master and
disciple, after which he did indeed become a true person. Today he is not
only a founding patriarch of the Unmon and Hogen [sects],6 [but also] a guid-
ing teacher in the human world and in the heavens above.
[95] When we consider this story, it is evident now that Tokusan in the
past was not enlightened. Even though the old woman has now shut Toku-
san's mouth, it is also hard to decide that she is really a true person. In brief,
it seems that hearing the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she considers
only that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as she does. If Tokusan were a
stout fellow, he might have the power of interpretation. If he were able to
interpret [the situation], it would also have become apparent whether the old
woman was a true person, but because this is a time when Tokusan was not
Tokusan, whether the old woman is a true person also is not known and not
evident. What is more, we are not without reasons to doubt the old woman
now. When Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does she not say to Toku-
san, �Now the master is unable to say something, so please go ahead and ask
[this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master instead. �
Then, after receiving Tokusan's question, if she had something to say to
Tokusan, the old woman might show some real ability. Someone who has
the state of effort common to the bones and marrow and the faces and eyes
of the ancients, and [common] to the brightness and the conspicuous form
of eternal buddhas, in such a situation has no trouble not only taking hold
but also letting go of Tokusan, the old woman, the ungraspable, the gras-
pable, rice cakes, and mind. The �buddha-mind� is just the three times. 7 Mind
and the three times are not separated by a thousandth or a hundredth, but
when they move apart and we discuss their separation, then the profound
distance [between them] has [already] gone beyond eighty-four thousand. 8
If [someone] says �What is past mind? � we should say to that person �It can-
not be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is present mind? � we should say
to that person �It cannot be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is future
mind? � we should say to that person �It cannot be grasped. � The point here
is not to say that there is mind, which we provisionally call ungraspable; we
are just saying for the present �It cannot be grasped. � We do not say that it
is impossible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � We do not
say that it is possible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � Fur-
ther, if [someone] says �What is the state of �past mind cannot be grasped'? �
we should say �Living and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says
�What is the state of �present mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Liv-
ing and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says �What is the state of
�future mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Living and dying, com-
ing and going. � In sum, there is buddha-mind as fences, walls, tiles, and peb-
bles, and all the buddhas of the three times experience this as �it cannot be
grasped. � There are only fences, walls, tiles, and pebbles, which are the
buddha-mind itself, and the buddhas experience this in the three times as �it
cannot be grasped. � Furthermore there is the state of �it cannot be grasped�
itself, existing as mountains, rivers, and the earth. There are [times when]
the state of �it cannot be grasped� as grass, trees, wind, and water, is just
mind. There are also [times when] �the mind to which we should give rise
while having no abode�9 is the state of �it cannot be grasped. � Still further,
mind in the state of �it cannot be grasped� which is preaching eighty thou-
sand Dharma gates through all the ages of all the buddhas of the ten direc-
tions, is like this.
[99] A further example: At the time of the National Master Daisho,10
Daini Sanzo11 arrived at the capital12 from the faraway Western Heavens,13
claiming to have attained the power to know others' minds. 14 In the story the
Tang emperor Shukuso15 orders the National Master to examine [Sanzo]. As
soon as Sanzo meets the National Master, he promptly prostrates himself
and stands to the [master's] right.
At length, the National Master asks, �Have you got the power to know
others' minds, or not? �
Sanzo says, �I would not be so bold [as to say]. �16
The National Master says, �Tell me where [this] old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you by the West River watching a boat race? �
The National Master, after a while, asks a second time, �Tell me where
the old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you on Tianjin Bridge17 watching [someone] play with a monkey? �
The National Master asks again, �Tell me where the old monk is now. �
Sanzo takes a while, but knows nothing and sees nothing. Then the
National Master scolds him, saying, �You ghost of a wild fox,18 where is
your power to know others' minds? �
Sanzo has no further answer. 19
[101] If we did not know of such an episode, that would be bad, and if
we were not informed about it, we might have doubts. Buddhist patriarchs
and scholars of the Tripi? aka20 can never be equal; they are as far apart as
heaven and earth. Buddhist patriarchs have clarified the Buddha-Dharma,
scholars of the Tripi? aka have never clarified it at all. With regard to [the
title] �scholar of the Tripi? aka,� indeed, there are cases of even secular peo-
ple being �a scholar of the Tripi? aka. � It represents, for example, the acqui-
sition of a place in literary culture. This being so, even if [Sanzo] has not
only understood all the languages of India and China but has also accom-
plished the power to know others' minds as well, he has never seen the body
and mind of the Buddhist truth, even in a dream. For this reason, in his audi-
ence with the National Master, who has experienced the state of the Buddhist
patriarchs, [Sanzo] is seen through at once. When we learn mind in Buddhism,
the myriad dharmas are mind itself,21 and the triple world is mind alone. 22
It may be that mind alone is just mind alone,23 and that concrete buddha is
mind here and now. 24 Whether it is self, or whether it is the external world,
we must not be mistaken about the mind of the Buddha's truth. It could never
idly ? ow down to the West River or wander over to Tianjin Bridge. If we
want to maintain and to rely upon the body and mind of the Buddha's truth,
we must learn the power which is the wisdom of the Buddha's truth. That is
to say, in the Buddha's truth the whole earth is mind, which does not change
through arising and vanishing, and the whole Dharma is mind. We should
also learn the whole of mind as the power of wisdom. Sanzo, not having seen
this already, is nothing but the ghost of a wild fox. So, even the first two times,
[Sanzo] never sees the mind of the National Master, and never penetrates25
the mind of the National Master at all. He is a wild fox cub idly playing with
no more than the West River, Tianjin Bridge, a boat race, and a monkey�
how could he hope to see the National Master? Again, the fact is evident that
[Sanzo] cannot see the place where the National Master is. He is asked three
times, �Tell me where the old monk is now,� but he does not listen to these
words. If he could listen, he might be able to investigate [further], [but] because
he does not listen, he blunders heedlessly onward. If Sanzo had learned the
Buddha-Dharma, he would listen to the words of the National Master, and
he might be able to see the body and mind of the National Master. Because
he does not learn the Buddha-Dharma in his everyday life, even though he
was born to meet a guiding teacher of the human world and the heavens above,
he has passed [the opportunity] in vain. It is pitiful and it is deplorable. In
general, how could a scholar of the Tripi? aka attain to the conduct of a Buddhist
patriarch and know the limits of the National Master? Needless to say, teach-
ers of commentaries from the Western Heavens, and Indian scholars of the
Tripi? aka, could never know the conduct of the National Master at all. Kings
of gods can know, and teachers of commentaries can know, what scholars of
the Tripi? aka know. How could what commentary-teachers and gods know
be beyond the wisdom of [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment; or beyond
[bodhisattvas at] the ten sacred stages and the three clever stages? Gods can-
not know, and [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment26 have never clar-
ified, the body and mind of the National Master. Discussion of body and mind
among Buddhists is like this. We should know it and believe it.
[105] The Dharma of our great teacher Sakyamuni is never akin to the
ghosts of wild foxes�the two vehicles, non-Buddhists, and the like. Still,
venerable patriarchs through the ages have each studied this story, and their
discussions have survived:
27A monk asks Joshu,28 �Why does Sanzo not see where the National
Master is the third time? � Joshu says, �He does not see because the National
Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils. �
Another monk asks Gensha,29 �If [the National Master] is already on
[Sanzo's] nostrils, why does [Sanzo] not see him? � Gensha says, �Simply
because of being enormously close. �
Kaie Tan30 says, �If the National Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils,
what difficulty could [Sanzo] have in seeing him? Above all, it has not been
recognized that the National Master is inside Sanzo's eyeballs. �
On another occasion, Gensha challenges31 Sanzo with these words: �You!
Say! Have you seen at all, even the first two times? � Setcho Ken32 says, �I
am defeated, I am defeated. �
On still another occasion, a monk asks Kyozan,33 �Why is it that the
third time, though Sanzo takes a while, he does not see where the National
Master is? � Kyozan says, �The first two times [the master's] mind is wan-
dering in external circumstances; then he enters the samadhi of receiving
and using the self,34 and so [Sanzo] does not see him. �
These five venerable patriarchs are all precise, but they have passed over
the National Master's conduct: by only discussing [Sanzo's] failure to know
the third time, they seem to permit that he knew the first two times. This is
the ancestors' oversight, and students of later ages should know it.
[108] Kosho's (Dogen)35 present doubts about the five venerable patri-
archs are twofold. First, they do not know the National Master's intention
in examining Sanzo. Second, they do not know the National Master's body
and mind.
[109] Now the reason I say that they do not know the National Master's
intention in examining Sanzo is as follows: First the National Master says,
�Tell me where the old monk is just now. � The intention expressed [here] is
to test whether or not Sanzo has ever known the Buddha-Dharma. At this
time, if Sanzo has heard the Buddha-Dharma, he would study according to
the Buddha-Dharma the question �Where is the old monk just now? � Stud-
ied according to the Buddha-Dharma, the National Master's �Where is the
old monk now� asks �Am I at this place? � �Am I at that place? � �Am I in
the supreme state of bodhi? � �Am I in the praj�aparamita? � �Am I sus-
pended in space? � �Am I standing on the earth?
been made into �eternal presence�116 as �my Pure Land which is immor-
tal,�117 and this also we must meticulously perform as �original practice. �118
Do we realize in practice that �wholeheartedly wanting to meet
Buddha�119 is about ourselves, or do we realize in practice that it is about
others? There are times when the truth is realized as an �individual body,�120
and there are times when the truth is realized as the �whole body. �121
�Appearance together on Vulture Peak�122 comes from �not begrudg-
ing one's own body and life. �123 There is disclosure, display, realization, and
entering in �constantly abiding here preaching the Dharma,�124 and there is
disclosure, display, realization, and entering in, �as an expedient method,
manifesting nirvana. �125 In the state of �being close yet still failing to see,�126
who could not believe in understanding of non-understanding by �whole-
heartedness�? 127
The place that is �always filled with gods and human beings�128 is just
the land of Sakyamuni Buddha and of Vairocana,129 �the eternally peaceful
and bright land�130 itself. We who naturally belong in the �four lands�131 are
just living in �the Buddha's land� which is �real oneness. �132 When we look
at �atoms�133 that does not mean we fail to see �the world of Dharma. � When
we are experiencing the world of Dharma,134 that does not mean we fail to
experience atoms. When the buddhas experience the world of Dharma, they
do not exclude us from the experience, which is �good at the beginning, mid-
dle, and end. �
This being so, the present is the �form as it is� of the state of experi-
ence, and even �alarm, doubt, and fear�135 are nothing other than reality as
it is. With the Buddha's wisdom, this [fear] is only the difference between
looking at atoms and sitting in atoms. When we are seated in the world of
Dharma it is not wide, and when we are sitting in atoms, they are not confin-
ing; therefore, without maintaining and relying upon [reality as it is], we
cannot sit, but when we are maintaining and relying upon [reality as it is],
there is no alarm or doubt about width and confinement. This is because we
have �perfectly realized� the �body� and the �energy� of the Flower of
Dharma. So should we think that our own �form� and �nature� now are �orig-
inally practicing� in this world of Dharma, or should we think that they are
�originally practicing� in atoms? They are without alarm and doubt, and
without fear; they are simply the profound and eternal state which is origi-
nal practice as the Flower of Dharma turning. This seeing atoms and seeing
the world of Dharma is beyond conscious action and conscious considera-
tion. Conscious consideration, and conscious action too, should learn Flower
of Dharma consideration, and should learn Flower of Dharma action. When
we hear of �disclosure, display, realization, and entering,� we should under-
stand them in terms of [the Buddha's] �desire to cause living beings. �136 In
other words, that which, as the Flower of Dharma turning, discloses the
Buddha's wisdom, we should learn by displaying the Buddha's wisdom.
That which, as the Flower of Dharma turning, realizes the Buddha's wis-
dom, we should learn by entering the Buddha's wisdom. That which, as the
Flower of Dharma turning, displays the Buddha's wisdom, we should learn
by realizing the Buddha's wisdom. For each such instance of the Flower of
Dharma turning, as disclosure, display, realizing, and entering, we can have
ways of perfect realization. In sum, this wisdom-paramita137 of the buddha-
tathagatas is the Dharma Flower's turning, which is wide, great, profound,
and eternal. �Affirmation�138 is just our own disclosure of the Buddha's wis-
dom; it is the Flower of Dharma's turning which is never imparted by oth-
ers. This, then, is [the reality of] �When the mind is in the state of delusion,
the Flower of Dharma turns. �
[62] �When the mind is in the state of realization, we turn the Flower
of Dharma� describes turning the Flower of Dharma. That is to say, when
the Flower of Dharma has �perfectly exhausted�139 the energy with which it
turns us, the �energy as it is�140 with which we turn ourselves will, in turn,
be realized. This realization is to turn the Flower of Dharma. Though the
former turning is, even now, without cease, we, reversely, are naturally turn-
ing the Flower of Dharma. Though we have not finished donkey business,
horse business will still come in. 141 [Here] there exists �sole reliance on the
one great purpose� as �real appearance at this place. �142 The multitudes of
the thousandfold world that �spring out of the earth�143 have long been great
honored saints of the Flower of Dharma144 but they spring out of the earth
being turned by themselves and they spring out of the earth being turned by
circumstances. 145 In turning the Flower of Dharma we should not only real-
ize springing out of the earth; in turning the Flower of Dharma we should
also realize springing out of space. 146 We should know with the Buddha's
wisdom not only earth and space but also springing out of the Flower of
Dharma itself. In general, in the time of the Flower of Dharma, inevitably,
�the father is young and the son old. �147 It is neither that the son is not the
son, nor that the father is not the father; we should just learn that the son is
old and the father young. Do not imitate �the disbelief of the world�148 and
be surprised. [Even] the disbelief of the world is the time of the Flower of
Dharma. This being so, in turning the Flower of Dharma we should realize
the �one time� in which �the Buddha is living. �149 Turned by disclosure, dis-
play, realization, and entering, we spring out of the earth; and turned by the
Buddha's wisdom, we spring out of the earth. At the time of this turning the
Flower of Dharma, �mental realization�150 exists as the Flower of Dharma,
and the Flower of Dharma exists as mental realization. 151 For another exam-
ple, the meaning of �the downward direction� is just �the inside of space. �152
This �downward,� and this �space,� are just the turning of the Flower of
Dharma, and are just the lifetime of the Buddha. We should realize, in turn-
ing the Flower of Dharma, that the Buddha's lifetime, the Flower of Dharma,
the world of Dharma, and the wholehearted state, are realized as �down-
ward,� and realized also as �space. � Thus, �downward space� describes just
the realization of turning the Flower of Dharma. In sum, at this moment, by
turning the Flower of Dharma we can cause the three kinds of grass to exist,
and by turning the Flower of Dharma we can cause the two kinds of trees to
exist. We should not expect [this] to be a state of awareness, and we should
not wonder whether it is a state without awareness. When we turn ourselves
and �initiate bodhi,�153 that is just �the southern quarter. �154 This realization
of the truth is originally present on Vulture Peak, which convenes as an order
in the southern quarter. Vulture Peak is always present in our turning the
Flower of Dharma. There are buddha lands of the ten directions that con-
vene as an order in space, and this is an individual body155 turning the Flower
of Dharma. When we realize it, in turning the Flower of Dharma, as already
the buddha lands of the ten directions, there is no place into which an atom
could enter. There is turning the Flower of Dharma as �matter just being the
immaterial,�156 which is beyond �either disappearance or appearance. �157
There is turning the Flower of Dharma as �the immaterial just being mat-
ter,�158 which may be �absence of life and death. �159 We cannot call it �being
in the world�;160 and how could it only be in a process of �extinction�? 161
When [a person] is a �close friend�162 to us, we are also a �close friend� to
that person. We must not forget to bow to and to work for a �close friend�;
therefore, we must take care to perfectly realize moments of giving �the pearl
in the topknot�163 and of giving �the pearl in the clothes. �164 There is turn-
ing the Flower of Dharma in the presence �before the Buddha� of a �trea-
sure stupa,�165 whose �height is five hundred yojanas. �166 There is turning
the Flower of Dharma in the �Buddha sitting inside the stupa,�167 whose
extent is �two hundred and fifty yojanas. � There is turning the Flower of
Dharma in springing out from the earth and abiding in the earth, [in which
state] mind is without restriction and matter is without restriction. There is
turning the Flower of Dharma in springing out from the sky and abiding in
the earth, which is restricted by the eyes and restricted by the body. 168 Vul-
ture Peak exists inside the stupa, and the treasure stupa exists on Vulture
Peak. The treasure stupa is a treasure stupa in space, and space makes space
for the treasure stupa. 169 The eternal buddha inside the stupa takes his seat
alongside the buddha of Vulture Peak, and the buddha of Vulture Peak expe-
riences the state of experience as the buddha inside the stupa. 170 When the
buddha of Vulture Peak enters the state of experience inside the stupa, while
object and subject on Vulture Peak [remain] just as they are, he enters into
the turning of the Flower of Dharma. When the buddha inside the stupa
springs out on Vulture Peak, while still of the land of eternal buddhas, while
still �long extinct,�171 he springs out. �Springing out,� and �entering into the
turning,� are not to be learned under common people and the two vehicles,
[but] should follow turning of the Flower of Dharma. �Eternal extinction�
is an ornament of real experience that adorns the state of buddha. �Inside the
stupa,� �before the Buddha,� �the treasure stupa,� and �space� are not of
Vulture Peak; they are not of the world of Dharma; they are not a halfway
stage; and they are not of the whole world. Nor are they concerned with only
a �concrete place in the Dharma. �172 They are simply �different from think-
ing. �173 There is turning the Flower of Dharma either in �manifesting the
body of Buddha and preaching the Dharma for others�174 or in manifesting
this body and preaching the Dharma for others. Or turning the Flower of
Dharma is the manifestation of Devadatta. 175 Or there is turning the Flower
of Dharma in the manifestation of �to retreat also is fine. �176 Do not always
measure �the waiting, with palms held together and [faces] looking up,�177
as �sixty minor kalpas. �178 Even if the length of �wholehearted waiting�179
is condensed into just a few countless kalpas, still it will be impossible to
fathom the �buddha-wisdom. �180 As how much buddha-wisdom should we
see a wholehearted mind that is waiting? Do not see this turning the Flower
of Dharma only as �the bodhisattva way practiced in the past. �181 Wherever
the Flower of Dharma is a total order the virtue is that of turning the Flower
of Dharma, [and it is expressed] as, �The Tathagata preaches the Great Vehi-
cle today. �182 [When] the Flower of Dharma just now is the Flower of Dharma,
it is �neither sensed nor recognized,�183 and at the same time it is �beyond
knowing� and �beyond understanding. �184 This being so, �five hundred
[ink]drop [kalpas]�185 are a brief thousandth [of an instant] of turning the
Flower of Dharma; they are the Buddha's lifetime being proclaimed by each
moment of red mind.
[70] In conclusion, in the hundreds of years since this sutra was trans-
mitted into China, to be turned as the Flower of Dharma, very many people,
here and there, have produced their commentaries and interpretations. Some,
moreover, have attained the Dharma state of an eminent person by relying
on this sutra. But no one has grasped the point of �the Flower of Dharma
turning,� or mastered the point of �turning the Flower of Dharma,� in the
manner of our Founding Patriarch, the eternal buddha of Sokei. Now that
we have heard these [points] and now that we have met it, we have experi-
enced the meeting of eternal buddha with eternal buddha; how could [this]
not be the land of eternal buddhas? How joyful it is! From kalpa to kalpa is
the Flower of Dharma, and from noon to night is the Flower of Dharma.
Because the Flower of Dharma is from kalpa to kalpa, and because the Flower
of Dharma is from noon to night, even though our own body and mind grows
strong and grows weak, it is just the Flower of Dharma itself. The reality
that exists �as it is� is �a treasure,�186 is �brightness,�187 is �a seat of truth,�188
is �wide, great, profound, and eternal,�189 is �profound, great, and everlast-
ing,�190 is �mind in delusion, the Flower of Dharma turning,� and is �mind
in realization, turning the Flower of Dharma,� which is really just the Flower
of Dharma turning the Flower of Dharma.
[72] When the mind is in the state of delusion, the Flower of Dharma
turns.
When the mind is in the state of realization, we turn the Flower of
Dharma.
If perfect realization can be like this,
The Flower of Dharma turns the Flower of Dharma.
When we �serve offerings to it, venerate, honor, and praise it�191 like
this, the Flower of Dharma is the Flower of Dharma.
Shobogenzo Hokke-ten-hokke
On a day of the summer retreat in the second year of Ninji192 I have written
this and presented it to Zen person Etatsu. I am profoundly glad that he is
going to leave home to practice the truth. Just to shave the head is a lovely
fact in itself. To shave the head and to shave the head again: this is to be a
true child of transcending family life. 193 Leaving home today is the �effects
and results as they are� of the �energy as it is,� which has turned the Flower
of Dharma hitherto. The Flower of Dharma today will inevitably bear the
Flower of Dharma's Flower of Dharma fruits. It is not Sakyamuni's Flower
of Dharma and it is not the buddhas' Flower of Dharma; it is the Flower of
Dharma of the Flower of Dharma. Though �form� is �as it is,� our habitual
turning of the Flower of Dharma has been suspended in the state of �neither
sensing nor recognizing. � But the Flower of Dharma now is manifesting
itself afresh in the state �beyond knowing and beyond understanding. � The
past was exhalation and inhalation, and the present is exhalation and inhala-
tion. This we should maintain and rely upon, as the Flower of Dharma that
is �too fine to think about. �194
Written by the founder of Kannondoriko sho-
horinji, a srama? a who entered Song [China]
and received the transmission of Dharma,
Dogen (his written seal).
The copying was completed at Hogyoji at
the beginning of spring195 in the third year
of Kagen. 196
---
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A Biography of Sakyamuni
The Lotus Sutra (Second Revised Edition)
The Sutra of Queen Srimala of the Lion's Roar
The Larger Sutra on Amitayus
The Sutra on Contemplation of Amitayus
The Smaller Sutra on Amitayus
The Bequeathed Teaching Sutra
The Vimalakirti Sutra
The Ullambana Sutra
The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment
The Vairocanabhisa? bodhi Sutra
The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch
The Baizhang Zen Monastic Regulations
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 2
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 3
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 4
Tannisho: Passages Deploring Deviations of Faith
Rennyo Shonin Ofumi: The Letters of Rennyo
The Sutra on the Profundity of Filial Love
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1 (? ? ? ? (1))
Chapter/Section: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 18
[Chapter Eighteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Former)
Translator's Note: Shin means �mind,� fu expresses negation, ka expresses
possibility, and toku means �to grasp. � Shin-fukatoku, or �mind cannot be
grasped,� is a quotation from the Diamond Sutra. On the basis of our com-
mon sense, we usually think that our mind can be grasped by our intellect,
and we are prone to think that our mind must exist somewhere substantially.
This belief also extends into the sphere of philosophy; Ren� Descartes, for
example, started his philosophical thinking with the premise �Cogito ergo
sum� or �I think therefore I am. � The German idealists, for example, Kant,
Fichte, von Schelling, and Hegel, also based their philosophies on the exis-
tence of mind. But in Buddhism we do not have confidence in the existence
of mind. Buddhism is a philosophy of action, or a philosophy of the here and
now; in that philosophy, mind cannot exist independently of the external
world. In other words, Buddhism says that all existence is the instantaneous
contact between mind and the external world. Therefore it is difficult for us
to grasp our mind independently of the external world. In short, Buddhist
theory cannot support belief in the independent existence of mind. In this
chapter, Master Dogen preached that mind cannot be grasped, explaining a
famous Buddhist story about a conversation between Master Tokusan Senkan
and an old woman selling rice cakes.
[75] Sakyamuni Buddha says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present mind
cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �1
This is what the Buddhist Patriarch has mastered in practice. Inside can-
not be grasped, it has scooped out and brought here the caves2 of the past,
present, and future. At the same time it has utilized the cave of [the Buddhist
Patriarch] himself, and the meaning of �self� here is �mind cannot be grasped. �
The present thinking and discrimination is �mind cannot be grasped. � The
whole body utilizing the twelve hours is just �mind cannot be grasped. �
[76] After entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch, we understand
�mind cannot be grasped. � Before entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch,
we are without questions about, we are without assertions about, and we do
not see and hear �mind cannot be grasped. � Teachers of sutras and teachers
of commentaries, sravakas and pratyekabuddhas, have never seen it even
in a dream. Evidence of this is close at hand: Zen Master Tokusan Senkan,3
in former days, boasts that he has elucidated the Diamond Praj�a Sutra. 4
Sometimes he calls himself �Shu, King of the Diamond Sutra. �5 He is reputed
to be especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries,6 besides which he
[himself] has edited texts weighing twelve tan. 7 It appears that there is no
other lecturer to match him. [In fact,] however, he is the last in a line of lit-
erary Dharma teachers. Once, he hears that there is a supreme Buddha-
Dharma, received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and angered
beyond endurance he crosses mountains and rivers, carrying his sutras and
commentaries with him, until he comes upon the order of Zen Master Shin
of Ryutan. 8 On the way to that order, which he intends to join, he stops for
a rest. Then an old woman comes along, and she [also] stops for a rest by
the side of the road.
Then Lecturer [Sen]kan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �Why does the master wish to buy rice cakes? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy rice cakes to refresh my mind. �9
The old woman says, �What is that great load the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am now carrying is commentaries on the Diamond
Sutra. �
Hearing this insistence, the old woman says, �The old woman has a
question. Will the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I give you permission at once. You may ask whatever
you like. �
The old woman says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that
past mind cannot be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future
mind cannot be grasped. Which mind do you now intend somehow to refresh
with rice cakes? If the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice
cakes. If the master is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
Tokusan is dumbfounded at this: he does not know how he might politely
reply. The old woman just swings her sleeves10 and leaves. In the end, she
does not sell her rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it is for a com-
mentator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on
merely receiving one question from a humble old woman, to be defeated at
once and not even to manage a polite reply. Such things are due to the great
difference between [someone] who has met a true teacher and succeeded a
true teacher and heard the right Dharma, and [someone] who has never heard
the right Dharma or met a true teacher. This is when Tokusan first says, �A
rice cake painted in a picture cannot kill hunger. � Now, so they say, he has
received the Dharma from Ryutan.
[81] When we carefully consider this story of the meeting between the
old woman and Tokusan, Tokusan's lack of clarity in the past is audible
[even] now. Even after meeting Ryutan he might still be frightened of the
old woman. He is just a late learner, not an eternal buddha who has tran-
scended enlightenment. The old woman on this occasion shuts Tokusan's
mouth, but it is still difficult to decide that she is really a true person. 11 The
reason is that when she hears the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she thinks
only that mind cannot be got, or that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as
she does. If Tokusan were a stout fellow, he might have the power to exam-
ine and defeat the old woman. If he had examined and defeated her already,
it would also be apparent whether the old woman is in fact a true person.
Tokusan has not yet become Tokusan, and so whether the old woman is a
true person also is not yet apparent.
[82] That the mountain monks of the great kingdom of Song today, with
their patched robes and wide sleeves,12 idly laugh at Tokusan's inability to
answer, and praise the old woman's inspired wit, might be very unreliable
and stupid. For there is no absence of reasons to doubt the old woman: At the
point when Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does the old woman not
say to Tokusan, �Now the master is unable to say something, [so] go ahead
and ask [this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master
instead. � If she spoke like this, and if what she said to Tokusan after receiv-
ing his question were right in expression, it would be apparent that the old
woman really was a true person. She has questions, but she is without any
assertion. No one since ancient times has ever been called a true person with-
out asserting even a single word. We can see from Tokusan's past [experi-
ence] that idle boasting is useless, from beginning to end. We can know from
the example of the old woman that someone who has never expressed any-
thing cannot be approved. Let us see if we can say something in Tokusan's
place. Just as the old woman is about to question him as she does, Tokusan
should tell her at once, �If you are like this, then do not sell me your rice
cakes! � If Tokusan speaks like this, he might be an inspired practitioner.
Tokusan might ask the old woman, �Present mind cannot be grasped, past
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. Which mind
do you now intend to refresh with rice cakes? � If he questions her like this,
the old woman should say at once to Tokusan, �The master knows only that
rice cakes cannot refresh the mind. You do not know that mind refreshes
rice cakes, and you do not know that mind refreshes mind. � If she says this,
Tokusan will surely hesitate. Just at that time, she should take three rice
cakes and hand them over to Tokusan. Just as Tokusan goes to take them,
the old woman should say, �Past mind cannot be grasped! Present mind can-
not be grasped!
Future mind cannot be grasped! � Or if Tokusan does not
extend his hands to take them, she should take one of the rice cakes and strike
Tokusan with it, saying, �You spiritless corpse! Do not be so dumb! � When
she speaks like this if Tokusan has something to say [for himself], fine. If
he has nothing to say, the old woman should speak again for Tokusan. [But]
she only swings her sleeves and leaves. We cannot suppose that there is a
bee in her sleeve, either. Tokusan himself does not say, �I cannot say any-
thing. Please, old woman, speak for me. � So not only does he fail to say what
he should say, he also fails to ask what he should ask. It is pitiful that the
old woman and Tokusan, past mind and future mind, questions and asser-
tions, are solely in the state of �future mind cannot be grasped. � Generally,
even after this, Tokusan does not appear to have experienced any great enlight-
enment, but only the odd moment of violent behavior. 13 If he had studied
under Ryutan for a long time, the horns on his head might have touched
something and broken,14 and he might have met the moment in which the
pearl [under the black dragon's] chin15 is authentically transmitted. We see
merely that his paper candle was blown out,16 which is not enough for the
transmission of the torch. 17 This being so, monks who are learning in prac-
tice must always be diligent in practice. Those who have taken it easy are
not right. Those who were diligent in practice are Buddhist patriarchs. In
conclusion, �mind cannot be grasped� means cheerfully buying a painted
rice cake18 and munching it up in one mouthful.
Shobogenzo Shin-fukatoku
Preached to the assembly at Kannondoriko-
shohorinji, in the Uji district of Yoshu,19
during the summer retreat in the second year
of Ninji. 20
---
BDK English Tripitaka
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BDK English Tripitaka
A Biography of Sakyamuni
The Lotus Sutra (Second Revised Edition)
The Sutra of Queen Srimala of the Lion's Roar
The Larger Sutra on Amitayus
The Sutra on Contemplation of Amitayus
The Smaller Sutra on Amitayus
The Bequeathed Teaching Sutra
The Vimalakirti Sutra
The Ullambana Sutra
The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment
The Vairocanabhisa? bodhi Sutra
The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch
The Baizhang Zen Monastic Regulations
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 2
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 3
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 4
Tannisho: Passages Deploring Deviations of Faith
Rennyo Shonin Ofumi: The Letters of Rennyo
The Sutra on the Profundity of Filial Love
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1 (? ? ? ? (1))
Chapter/Section: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 19
[Chapter Nineteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Latter)
Translator 's Note: The ninety-five�chapter edition of the Shobogenzo has
two chapters with the same title, Shin-fukatoku or Mind Cannot Be Grasped.
We usually discriminate between the two chapters with the words �the for-
mer,� and �the latter. � The contents of the two chapters are different, but
the meaning of the two chapters is almost the same. Furthermore, the end
of each chapter records the same date�the summer retreat in 1241. How-
ever, while the former chapter says �preached to the assembly,� this chap-
ter says �written. � So it may be that the former chapter was a shorthand
record of Master Dogen's preaching, and the latter was Master Dogen's draft
of his lecture. This is only a supposition, and scholars in future may be able
to find a more exact conclusion.
[89] �Mind cannot be grasped� is the buddhas; they have maintained it and
relied upon it as their own state of anuttara samyak sa? bodhi.
[90] The Diamond Sutra says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �
This is just the realized state of maintaining and relying upon �mind can-
not be grasped,� which is the buddhas themselves. They have maintained it
and relied upon it as �triple-world mind cannot be grasped� and as �all-dhar-
mas mind cannot be grasped. � The state of maintenance and reliance which
makes this clear is not experienced unless learned from buddhas and is not
authentically transmitted unless learned from patriarchs. To learn from bud-
dhas means to learn from the sixteen-foot body,1 and to learn from a single
stalk of grass. 2 To learn from the patriarchs means to learn from skin, ? esh,
bones, and marrow,3 and to learn from a face breaking into a smile. 4 The
import of this is that when we seek [the truth] under [a teacher who] has evi-
dently received the authentic transmission of the right Dharma-eye treasury,
who has received the legitimate one-to-one transmission of the state in which
the mind-seal of the buddhas and the patriarchs is directly accessible, then
without fail that [teacher's] bones and marrow, face and eyes, are transmit-
ted, and we receive body, hair, and skin. Those who do not learn the Buddha's
truth and who do not enter the room of a patriarch neither see nor hear nor
understand this. The method of asking about it is beyond them. They have
never realized the means to express it, even in a dream.
[92] Tokusan, in former days, when not a stout fellow, was an author-
ity on the Diamond Sutra. People of the time called him Shu, King of the
Diamond Sutra. Of more than eight hundred scholars, he is the king. Not
only is he especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries, he has also
edited texts weighing twelve tan. There is no lecturer who stands shoulder-
to-shoulder with him. In the story he hears that in the south a supreme truth
has been received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and so, car-
rying his texts, he travels across the mountains and rivers. He takes a rest by
the left of the road leading to Ryutan, and an old woman comes by.
Tokusan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �What does the master want to buy them for? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy some rice cakes to refresh my mind. �
The old woman says, �What is all that the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am carrying is commentaries on the Diamond Sutra. �
Hearing this, the old woman says, �The old woman has a question. Will
the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I permit it. You may ask whatever you like. �
She says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that past mind can-
not be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be
grasped. Which mind do you now intend to refresh with my rice cakes? If
the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice cakes. If the master
is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
At this, Tokusan was dumbfounded; he could not find any appropriate
reply. The old woman just swung her sleeves and left. In the end, she did
not sell any rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it was that a commen-
tator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on receiv-
ing one mere question from a humble old woman, promptly fell into defeat.
Such things are due to the great difference between those who have received
a master's transmission and those who have not received a master's trans-
mission, between those who visit the room of a true teacher and those who
do not enter the room of a true teacher. Hearing the words �cannot be grasped,�
[some] have simply understood that to grasp is equally impossible both for
the former group and for the latter group. They totally lack the vigorous
path. 5 Again, there are people who think that we say we cannot grasp it
because we are endowed with it originally. Such [thinking] has by no means
hit the target. This was when Tokusan first knew that rice cakes painted in
a picture cannot kill hunger, and understood that for Buddhist training it is
always necessary to meet a true person. He also understood that a person
who has been uselessly caught up in only sutras and texts is not able to acquire
real power. Eventually he visited Ryutan and realized the way of master and
disciple, after which he did indeed become a true person. Today he is not
only a founding patriarch of the Unmon and Hogen [sects],6 [but also] a guid-
ing teacher in the human world and in the heavens above.
[95] When we consider this story, it is evident now that Tokusan in the
past was not enlightened. Even though the old woman has now shut Toku-
san's mouth, it is also hard to decide that she is really a true person. In brief,
it seems that hearing the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she considers
only that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as she does. If Tokusan were a
stout fellow, he might have the power of interpretation. If he were able to
interpret [the situation], it would also have become apparent whether the old
woman was a true person, but because this is a time when Tokusan was not
Tokusan, whether the old woman is a true person also is not known and not
evident. What is more, we are not without reasons to doubt the old woman
now. When Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does she not say to Toku-
san, �Now the master is unable to say something, so please go ahead and ask
[this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master instead. �
Then, after receiving Tokusan's question, if she had something to say to
Tokusan, the old woman might show some real ability. Someone who has
the state of effort common to the bones and marrow and the faces and eyes
of the ancients, and [common] to the brightness and the conspicuous form
of eternal buddhas, in such a situation has no trouble not only taking hold
but also letting go of Tokusan, the old woman, the ungraspable, the gras-
pable, rice cakes, and mind. The �buddha-mind� is just the three times. 7 Mind
and the three times are not separated by a thousandth or a hundredth, but
when they move apart and we discuss their separation, then the profound
distance [between them] has [already] gone beyond eighty-four thousand. 8
If [someone] says �What is past mind? � we should say to that person �It can-
not be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is present mind? � we should say
to that person �It cannot be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is future
mind? � we should say to that person �It cannot be grasped. � The point here
is not to say that there is mind, which we provisionally call ungraspable; we
are just saying for the present �It cannot be grasped. � We do not say that it
is impossible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � We do not
say that it is possible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � Fur-
ther, if [someone] says �What is the state of �past mind cannot be grasped'? �
we should say �Living and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says
�What is the state of �present mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Liv-
ing and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says �What is the state of
�future mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Living and dying, com-
ing and going. � In sum, there is buddha-mind as fences, walls, tiles, and peb-
bles, and all the buddhas of the three times experience this as �it cannot be
grasped. � There are only fences, walls, tiles, and pebbles, which are the
buddha-mind itself, and the buddhas experience this in the three times as �it
cannot be grasped. � Furthermore there is the state of �it cannot be grasped�
itself, existing as mountains, rivers, and the earth. There are [times when]
the state of �it cannot be grasped� as grass, trees, wind, and water, is just
mind. There are also [times when] �the mind to which we should give rise
while having no abode�9 is the state of �it cannot be grasped. � Still further,
mind in the state of �it cannot be grasped� which is preaching eighty thou-
sand Dharma gates through all the ages of all the buddhas of the ten direc-
tions, is like this.
[99] A further example: At the time of the National Master Daisho,10
Daini Sanzo11 arrived at the capital12 from the faraway Western Heavens,13
claiming to have attained the power to know others' minds. 14 In the story the
Tang emperor Shukuso15 orders the National Master to examine [Sanzo]. As
soon as Sanzo meets the National Master, he promptly prostrates himself
and stands to the [master's] right.
At length, the National Master asks, �Have you got the power to know
others' minds, or not? �
Sanzo says, �I would not be so bold [as to say]. �16
The National Master says, �Tell me where [this] old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you by the West River watching a boat race? �
The National Master, after a while, asks a second time, �Tell me where
the old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you on Tianjin Bridge17 watching [someone] play with a monkey? �
The National Master asks again, �Tell me where the old monk is now. �
Sanzo takes a while, but knows nothing and sees nothing. Then the
National Master scolds him, saying, �You ghost of a wild fox,18 where is
your power to know others' minds? �
Sanzo has no further answer. 19
[101] If we did not know of such an episode, that would be bad, and if
we were not informed about it, we might have doubts. Buddhist patriarchs
and scholars of the Tripi? aka20 can never be equal; they are as far apart as
heaven and earth. Buddhist patriarchs have clarified the Buddha-Dharma,
scholars of the Tripi? aka have never clarified it at all. With regard to [the
title] �scholar of the Tripi? aka,� indeed, there are cases of even secular peo-
ple being �a scholar of the Tripi? aka. � It represents, for example, the acqui-
sition of a place in literary culture. This being so, even if [Sanzo] has not
only understood all the languages of India and China but has also accom-
plished the power to know others' minds as well, he has never seen the body
and mind of the Buddhist truth, even in a dream. For this reason, in his audi-
ence with the National Master, who has experienced the state of the Buddhist
patriarchs, [Sanzo] is seen through at once. When we learn mind in Buddhism,
the myriad dharmas are mind itself,21 and the triple world is mind alone. 22
It may be that mind alone is just mind alone,23 and that concrete buddha is
mind here and now. 24 Whether it is self, or whether it is the external world,
we must not be mistaken about the mind of the Buddha's truth. It could never
idly ? ow down to the West River or wander over to Tianjin Bridge. If we
want to maintain and to rely upon the body and mind of the Buddha's truth,
we must learn the power which is the wisdom of the Buddha's truth. That is
to say, in the Buddha's truth the whole earth is mind, which does not change
through arising and vanishing, and the whole Dharma is mind. We should
also learn the whole of mind as the power of wisdom. Sanzo, not having seen
this already, is nothing but the ghost of a wild fox. So, even the first two times,
[Sanzo] never sees the mind of the National Master, and never penetrates25
the mind of the National Master at all. He is a wild fox cub idly playing with
no more than the West River, Tianjin Bridge, a boat race, and a monkey�
how could he hope to see the National Master? Again, the fact is evident that
[Sanzo] cannot see the place where the National Master is. He is asked three
times, �Tell me where the old monk is now,� but he does not listen to these
words. If he could listen, he might be able to investigate [further], [but] because
he does not listen, he blunders heedlessly onward. If Sanzo had learned the
Buddha-Dharma, he would listen to the words of the National Master, and
he might be able to see the body and mind of the National Master. Because
he does not learn the Buddha-Dharma in his everyday life, even though he
was born to meet a guiding teacher of the human world and the heavens above,
he has passed [the opportunity] in vain. It is pitiful and it is deplorable. In
general, how could a scholar of the Tripi? aka attain to the conduct of a Buddhist
patriarch and know the limits of the National Master? Needless to say, teach-
ers of commentaries from the Western Heavens, and Indian scholars of the
Tripi? aka, could never know the conduct of the National Master at all. Kings
of gods can know, and teachers of commentaries can know, what scholars of
the Tripi? aka know. How could what commentary-teachers and gods know
be beyond the wisdom of [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment; or beyond
[bodhisattvas at] the ten sacred stages and the three clever stages? Gods can-
not know, and [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment26 have never clar-
ified, the body and mind of the National Master. Discussion of body and mind
among Buddhists is like this. We should know it and believe it.
[105] The Dharma of our great teacher Sakyamuni is never akin to the
ghosts of wild foxes�the two vehicles, non-Buddhists, and the like. Still,
venerable patriarchs through the ages have each studied this story, and their
discussions have survived:
27A monk asks Joshu,28 �Why does Sanzo not see where the National
Master is the third time? � Joshu says, �He does not see because the National
Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils. �
Another monk asks Gensha,29 �If [the National Master] is already on
[Sanzo's] nostrils, why does [Sanzo] not see him? � Gensha says, �Simply
because of being enormously close. �
Kaie Tan30 says, �If the National Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils,
what difficulty could [Sanzo] have in seeing him? Above all, it has not been
recognized that the National Master is inside Sanzo's eyeballs. �
On another occasion, Gensha challenges31 Sanzo with these words: �You!
Say! Have you seen at all, even the first two times? � Setcho Ken32 says, �I
am defeated, I am defeated. �
On still another occasion, a monk asks Kyozan,33 �Why is it that the
third time, though Sanzo takes a while, he does not see where the National
Master is? � Kyozan says, �The first two times [the master's] mind is wan-
dering in external circumstances; then he enters the samadhi of receiving
and using the self,34 and so [Sanzo] does not see him. �
These five venerable patriarchs are all precise, but they have passed over
the National Master's conduct: by only discussing [Sanzo's] failure to know
the third time, they seem to permit that he knew the first two times. This is
the ancestors' oversight, and students of later ages should know it.
[108] Kosho's (Dogen)35 present doubts about the five venerable patri-
archs are twofold. First, they do not know the National Master's intention
in examining Sanzo. Second, they do not know the National Master's body
and mind.
[109] Now the reason I say that they do not know the National Master's
intention in examining Sanzo is as follows: First the National Master says,
�Tell me where the old monk is just now. � The intention expressed [here] is
to test whether or not Sanzo has ever known the Buddha-Dharma. At this
time, if Sanzo has heard the Buddha-Dharma, he would study according to
the Buddha-Dharma the question �Where is the old monk just now? � Stud-
ied according to the Buddha-Dharma, the National Master's �Where is the
old monk now� asks �Am I at this place? � �Am I at that place? � �Am I in
the supreme state of bodhi? � �Am I in the praj�aparamita? � �Am I sus-
pended in space? � �Am I standing on the earth?
