The blessed Angels also shall be
there as faithful Servants, and the Devils to be judg'd.
there as faithful Servants, and the Devils to be judg'd.
Erasmus
_ What's that?
_Ba. _ A strong Resolution not to be removed from the Opinion that has
been fixed in you. But besides, what Need you fear to become a Fighter,
where the Business is managed by Words?
_Au. _ There is something in what you say, if there be any Hope of doing
any good.
_Ba. _ While there is Life there is Hope, and according to St. _Paul,
Charity can't despair, because it hopes all Things_.
_Au. _ You observe very well, and upon this Hope I may venture to
discourse with you a little; and if you'll permit me, I'll be a
Physician to you.
_Ba. _ Do, with all my Heart.
_Au. _ Inquisitive Persons are commonly hated, but yet Physicians are
allowed to be inquisitive after every particular Thing.
_Ba. _ Ask me any Thing that you have a Mind to ask me.
_Au. _ I'll try. But you must promise me you'll answer me sincerely.
_Ba. _ I'll promise you. But let me know what you'll ask me about.
_Au. _ Concerning the Apostles Creed.
_Ba. _ _Symbolum_ is indeed a military Word. I will be content to be
look'd upon an Enemy to Christ, if I shall deceive you in this Matter.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe in God the Father Almighty, who made the Heaven
and Earth.
_Ba. _ Yes, and whatsoever is contained in the Heaven and Earth, and the
Angels also which are Spirits.
_Au. _ When thou say'st God, what dost thou understand by it?
_Ba. _ I understand a certain eternal Mind, which neither had Beginning
nor shall have any End, than which nothing can be either greater, wiser,
or better.
_Au. _ Thou believest indeed like a good Christian.
_Ba. _ Who by his omnipotent Beck made all Things visible or invisible;
who by his wonderful Wisdom orders and governs all Things; who by his
Goodness feeds and maintains all Things, and freely restored Mankind
when fallen.
_Au. _ These are indeed three especial Attributes in God: But what
Benefit dost thou receive by the Knowledge of them?
_Ba. _ When I conceive him to be Omnipotent, I submit myself wholly to
him, in comparison of whose Majesty, the Excellency of Men and Angels is
nothing. Moreover, I firmly believe whatsoever the holy Scriptures teach
to have been done, and also that what he hath promised shall be done by
him, seeing he can by his single Beck do whatsoever he pleases, how
impossible soever it may seem to Man. And upon that Account distrusting
my own Strength, I depend wholly upon him who can do all Things. When I
consider his Wisdom, I attribute nothing at all to my own, but I believe
all Things are done by him righteously and justly, although they may
seem to human Sense absurd or unjust. When I animadvert on his Goodness,
I see nothing in myself that I do not owe to free Grace, and I think
there is no Sin so great, but he is willing to forgive to a true
Penitent, nor nothing but what he will freely bestow on him that asks in
Faith.
_Au. _ Dost thou think that it is sufficient for thee to believe him to
be so?
_Ba. _ By no Means. But with a sincere Affection I put my whole Trust and
Confidence in him alone, detesting Satan, and all Idolatry, and magic
Arts. I worship him alone, preferring nothing before him, nor equalling
nothing with him, neither Angel, nor my Parents, nor Children, nor Wife,
nor Prince, nor Riches, nor Honours, nor Pleasures; being ready to lay
down my Life if he call for it, being assur'd that he can't possibly
perish who commits himself wholly to him.
_Au. _ What then, dost thou worship nothing, fear nothing, love nothing
but God alone?
_Ba. _ If I reverence any Thing, fear any Thing, or love any Thing, it
is for his Sake I love it, fear it, and reverence it; referring all
Things to his Glory, always giving Thanks to him for whatsoever happens,
whether prosperous or adverse, Life or Death.
_Au. _ In Truth your Confession is very sound so far. What do you think
concerning the second Person?
_Ba. _ Examine me.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe Jesus was God and Man?
_Ba. _ Yes.
_Au. _ Could it be that the same should be both immortal God and mortal
Man?
_Ba. _ That was an easy Thing for him to do who can do what he will: And
by Reason of his divine Nature, which is common to him with the Father,
whatsoever Greatness, Wisdom, and Goodness I attribute to the Father, I
attribute the same to the Son; and whatsoever I owe to the Father, I owe
also to the Son, but only that it hath seemed good to the Father to
bestow all Things on us through him.
_Au. _ Why then do the holy Scriptures more frequently call the Son Lord
than God?
_Ba. _ Because God is a Name of Authority, that is to say, of
Sovereignty, which in an especial Manner belongeth to the Father, who is
absolutely the Original of all Things, and the Fountain even of the
Godhead itself. Lord is the Name of a Redeemer and Deliverer, altho' the
Father also redeemed us by his Son, and the Son is God, but of God the
Father. But the Father only is from none, and obtains the first Place
among the divine Persons.
_Au. _ Then dost thou put thy Confidence in _Jesus_?
_Ba. _ Why not?
_Au. _ But the Prophet calls him accursed who puts his Trust in Man.
_Ba. _ But to this Man alone hath all the Power in Heaven and Earth been
given, that at his Name every Knee should bow, both of Things in Heaven,
Things in Earth, and Things under the Earth. Although I would not put my
chief Confidence and Hope in him, unless he were God.
_Au. _ Why do you call him Son?
_Ba. _ Lest any should imagine him to be a Creature.
_Au. _ Why an only Son?
_Ba. _ To distinguish the natural Son from the Sons by Adoption, the
Honour of which Sirname he imputes to us also, that we may look for no
other besides this Son.
_Au. _ Why would he have him to be made Man, who was God?
_Ba. _ That being Man, he might reconcile Men to God.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe he was conceived without the Help of Man, by the
Operation of the holy Ghost, and born of the undented Virgin _Mary_,
taking a mortal Body of her Substance?
_Ba. _ Yes.
_Au. _ Why would he be so born?
_Ba. _ Because it so became God to be born, because it became him to be
born in this Manner, who was to cleanse away the Filthiness of our
Conception and Birth. God would have him to be born the Son of Man, that
we being regenerated into him, might be made the Sons of God.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe that he lived here upon Earth, did Miracles,
taught those Things that are recorded to us in the Gospel?
_Ba. _ Ay, more certainly than I believe you to be a Man.
_Au. _ I am not an _Apuleius_ turned inside out, that you should suspect
that an Ass lies hid under the Form of a Man. But do you believe this
very Person to be the very Messiah whom the Types of the Law shadowed
out, which the Oracle of the Prophets promised, which the _Jews_ looked
for so many Ages?
_Ba. _ I believe nothing more firmly.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe his Doctrine and Life are sufficient to lead us
to perfect Piety?
_Ba. _ Yes, perfectly sufficient.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe that the same was really apprehended by the
_Jews_, bound, buffeted, beaten, spit upon, mock'd, scourg'd under
_Pontius Pilate_; and lastly, nailed to the Cross, and there died?
_Ba. _ Yes, I do.
_Au. _ Do you believe him to have been free from all the Law of Sin
whatsoever?
_Ba. _ Why should I not? A Lamb without Spot.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe he suffered all these Things of his own accord?
_Ba. _ Not only willingly, but even with great Desire; but according to
the Will of his Father.
_Au. _ Why would the Father have his only Son, being innocent and most
dear to him, suffer all these Things?
_Ba. _ That by this Sacrifice he might reconcile to himself us who were
guilty, we putting our Confidence and Hope in his Name.
_Au. _ Why did God suffer all Mankind thus to fall? And if he did suffer
them, was there no other Way to be found out to repair our Fall?
_Ba. _ Not human Reason, but Faith hath persuaded me of this, that it
could be done no Way better nor more beneficially for our Salvation.
_Au. _ Why did this Kind of Death please him best?
_Ba. _ Because in the Esteem of the World it was the most disgraceful,
and because the Torment of it was cruel and lingring, because it was
meet for him who would invite all the Nations of the World unto
Salvation, with his Members stretch'd out into every Coast of the World,
and call off Men, who were glew'd unto earthly Cares, to heavenly
Things; and, last of all, that he might represent to us the brazen
Serpent that _Moses_ set up upon a Pole, that whoever should fix his
Eyes upon it, should be heal'd of the Wounds of the Serpent, and fulfil
the Prophet's Promise, who prophesied, _say ye among the Nations, God
hath reign'd from a Tree_.
_Au. _ Why would he be buried also, and that so curiously, anointed with
Myrrh and Ointments, inclosed in a new Tomb, cut out of a hard and
natural Rock, the Door being seal'd, and also publick Watchmen set
there?
_Ba. _ That it might be the more manifest that he was really dead.
_Au. _ Why did he not rise again presently?
_Ba. _ For the very same Reason; for if his Death had been doubtful, his
Resurrection had been doubtful too; but he would have that to be as
certain as possible could be.
_Au. _ Do you believe his Soul descended into Hell?
_Ba. _ St. _Cyprian_ affirms that this Clause was not formerly inserted
either in the _Roman_ Creed or in the Creed of the Eastern Churches,
neither is it recorded in _Tertullian_, a very ancient Writer. And yet
notwithstanding, I do firmly believe it, both because it agrees with the
Prophecy of the Psalm, _Thou wilt not leave my Soul in Hell_; and again,
_O Lord, thou hast brought my Soul out of Hell_. And also because the
Apostle _Peter_, in the third Chapter of his first Epistle (of the
Author whereof no Man ever doubted,) writes after this Manner, _Being
put to Death in the Flesh, but quickned by the Spirit, in which also he
came and preach'd by his Spirit to those that were in Prison_. But
though I believe he descended into Hell, yet I believe he did not suffer
anything there. For he descended not to be tormented there, but that he
might destroy the Kingdom of Satan.
_Au. _ Well, I hear nothing yet that is impious; but he died that he
might restore us to Life again, who were dead in Sin. But why did he
rise to live again?
_Ba. _ For three Reasons especially.
_Au. _ Which are they?
_Ba. _ First of all, to give us an assur'd Hope of our Resurrection.
Secondly, that we might know that he in whom we have plac'd the Safety
of our Resurrection is immortal, and shall never die. Lastly, that we
being dead in Sins by Repentance, and buried together with him by
Baptism, should by his Grace be raised up again to Newness of Life.
_Au. _ Do you believe that the very same Body that died upon the Cross,
which reviv'd in the Grave, which was seen and handled by the Disciples,
ascended into Heaven?
_Ba. _ Yes, I do.
_Au. _ Why would he leave the Earth?
_Ba. _ That we might all love him spiritually, and that no Man should
appropriate Christ to himself upon the Earth, but that we should equally
lift up our Minds to Heaven, knowing that our Head is there. For if Men
now so much please themselves in the Colour and Shape of the Garment,
and do boast so much of the Blood or the Foreskin of Christ, and the
Milk of the Virgin _Mary_, what do you think would have been, had he
abode on the Earth, eating and discoursing? What Dissentions would those
Peculiarities of his Body have occasioned?
_Au. _ Dost thou believe that he, being made immortal, sitteth at the
right Hand of the Father?
_Ba. _ Why not? As being Lord of all Things, and Partaker of all his
Father's Kingdom. He promised his Disciples that this should be, and he
presented this Sight to his Martyr _Stephen_.
_Au. _ Why did he shew it?
_Ba. _ That we may not be discouraged in any Thing, well knowing what a
powerful Defender and Lord we have in Heaven.
_Au. _ Do you believe that he will come again in the same Body, to judge
the Quick and the Dead?
_Ba. _ As certain as I am, that those Things the Prophets have foretold
concerning Christ hitherto have come to pass, so certain I am, that
whatsoever he would have us look for for the future, shall come to pass.
We have seen his first Coming, according to the Predictions of the
Prophets, wherein he came in a low Condition, to instruct and save. We
shall also see his second, when he will come on high, in the Glory of
his Father, before whose Judgment-Seat all Men of every Nation, and of
every Condition, whether Kings or Peasants, _Greeks_, or _Scythians_,
shall be compell'd to appear; and not only those, whom at that Coming he
shall find alive, but also all those who have died from the Beginning of
the World, even until that Time, shall suddenly be raised, and behold
his Judge every one in his own Body.
The blessed Angels also shall be
there as faithful Servants, and the Devils to be judg'd. Then he will,
from on high, pronounce that unvoidable Sentence, which will cast the
Devil, together with those that have taken his Part, into eternal
Punishments, that they may not after that, be able to do Mischief to
any. He will translate the Godly, being freed from all Trouble, to a
Fellowship with him in his heavenly Kingdom: Although he would have the
Day of his coming unknown to all.
_Au. _ I hear no Error yet. Let us now come to the third Person.
_Ba. _ As you please.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe in the holy Spirit?
_Ba. _ I do believe that it is true God, together with the Father, and
the Son. I believe they that wrote us the Books of the Old and New
Testament were inspired by it, without whose Help no Man attains
Salvation.
_Au. _ Why is he called a Spirit?
_Ba. _ Because as our Bodies do live by Breath, so our Minds are
quicken'd by the secret Inspiration of the holy Spirit.
_Au. _ Is it not lawful to call the Father a Spirit?
_Ba. _ Why not?
_Au. _ Are not then the Persons confounded?
_Ba. _ No, not at all, for the Father is called a Spirit, because he is
without a Body, which Thing is common to all the Persons, according to
their divine Nature: But the third Person is called a Spirit, because he
breathes out, and transfuses himself insensibly into our Minds, even as
the Air breathes from the Land, or the Rivers.
_Au. _ Why is the Name of Son given to the second Person?
_Ba. _ Because of his perfect Likeness of Nature and Will.
_Au. _ Is the Son more like the Father, than the holy Spirit?
_Ba. _ Not according to the divine Nature, except that he resembles the
Property of the Father the more in this, that the Spirit proceeds from
him also.
_Au. _ What hinders then, but that the holy Spirit may be called Son.
_Ba. _ Because, as St. _Hilary_ saith, I no where read that he was
begotten, neither do I read of his Father: I read of the _Spirit, and
that proceeding from_.
_Au. _ Why is the Father alone called God in the Creed?
_Ba. _ Because he, as I have said before, is simply the Author of all
Things that are, and the Fountain of the whole Deity.
_Au. _ Speak in plainer Terms.
_Ba. _ Because nothing can be nam'd which hath not its Original from the
Father: For indeed, in this very Thing, that the Son and Holy Spirit is
God, they acknowledge that they received it from the Father; therefore
the chief Authority, that is to say, the Cause of Beginning, is in the
Father alone, because he alone is of none: But yet, in the Creed it may
be so taken, that the Name of God may not be proper to one Person, but
used in general; because, it is distinguish'd afterwards by the Terms of
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, into one God; which Word of Nature
comprehends the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; that is to say, the three
Persons.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe in the holy Church?
_Ba. _ No.
_Au. _ What say you? Do you not believe in it?
_Ba. _ I believe the holy Church, which is the Body of Christ; that is to
say, a certain Congregation of all Men throughout the whole World, who
agree in the Faith of the Gospel, who worship one God the Father, who
put their whole Confidence in his Son, who are guided by the same Spirit
of him; from whose Fellowship he is cut off that commits a deadly Sin.
_Au. _ But why do you stick to say, I believe in the holy Church?
_Ba. _ Because St. _Cyprian_ hath taught me, that we must believe in God
alone, in whom we absolutely put all our Confidence. Whereas the Church,
properly so called, although it consists of none but good Men; yet it
consists of Men, who of good may become bad, who may be deceived, and
deceive others.
_Au. _ What do you think of the Communion of Saints?
_Ba. _ This Article is not all meddled with by _Cyprian_, when he
particularly shews what in such and such Churches is more or less used;
for he thus connects them: _For there followeth after this Saying, the
holy Church, the Forgiveness of Sins, the Resurrection of this Flesh_.
And some are of Opinion, that this Part does not differ from the former;
but that it explains and enforces what before was called _the holy
Church_; so that the Church is nothing else but the Profession of one
God, one Gospel, one Faith, one Hope, the Participation of the same
Spirit, and the same Sacraments: To be short, such a Kind of Communion
of all good Things, among all godly Men, who have been from the
Beginning of the World, even to the End of it, as the Fellowship of the
Members of the Body is between one another. So that the good Deeds of
one may help another, until they become lively Members of the Body. But
out of this Society, even one's own good Works do not further his
Salvation, unless he be reconcil'd to the holy Congregation; and
therefore it follows, _the Forgiveness of Sins_; because out of the
Church there is no Remission of Sins, although a Man should pine himself
away with Repentance, and exercise Works of Charity. In the Church, I
say, not of Hereticks, but the holy Church; that is to say, gathered by
the Spirit of Christ, there is Forgiveness of Sins by Baptism, and after
Baptism, by Repentence, and the Keys given to the Church.
_Au. _ Thus far they are the Words of a Man that is sound in the Faith.
Do you believe that there will be a Resurrection of the Flesh?
_Ba. _ I should believe all the rest to no Purpose, if I did not believe
this, which is the Head of all.
_Au. _ What dost thou mean, when thou say'st the Flesh?
_Ba. _ An human Body animated with a human Soul.
_Au. _ Shall every Soul receive its own Body which is left dead?
_Ba. _ The very same from whence it went out; and therefore, in Cyprian's
Creed, it is added, _of this Flesh_.
_Au. _ How can it be, that the Body which hath been now so often chang'd
out of one Thing into another, can rise again the same?
_Ba. _ He who could create whatsoever he would out of nothing, is it a
hard Matter for him to restore to its former Nature that which hath been
changed in its Form? I don't dispute anxiously which Way it can be done;
it is sufficient to me, that he who hath promised that it shall be so,
is so true, that he can't lye, and so powerful, as to be able to bring
to pass with a Beck, whatsoever he pleases.
_Au. _ What need will there be of a Body then?
_Ba. _ That the whole Man may be glorified with Christ, who, in this
World, was wholly afflicted with Christ.
_Au. _ What means that which he adds, _and Life everlasting_.
_Ba. _ Lest any one should think that we shall so rise again, as the
Frogs revive at the Beginning of the Spring, to die again. For here is a
twofold Death of the Body, that is common to all Men, both good and bad;
and of the Soul, and the Death of the Soul is Sin. But after the
Resurrection, the godly shall have everlasting Life, both of Body and
Soul: Nor shall the Body be then any more obnoxious to Diseases, old
Age, Hunger, Thirst, Pain, Weariness, Death, or any Inconveniences; but
being made spiritual, it shall be mov'd as the Spirit will have it: Nor
shall the Soul be any more sollicited with any Vices or Sorrows; but
shall for ever enjoy the chiefest Good, which is God himself. On the
contrary, eternal Death, both of Body and Soul, shall seize upon the
wicked. For their Body shall be made immortal, in order to the enduring
everlasting Torments, and their Soul to be continually vexed with the
Gripes of their Sins, without any Hope of Pardon.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe these things from thy very Heart, and
unfeignedly?
_Ba. _ I believe them so certainly, I tell you, that I am not so sure
that you talk with me.
_Au. _ When I was at _Rome_, I did not find all so sound in the Faith.
_Ba. _ Nay; but if you examine thoroughly, you'll find a great many
others in other Places too, which do not so firmly believe these Things.
_Au. _ Well then, since you agree with us in so many and weighty Points,
what hinders that you are not wholly on our Side?
_Ba. _ I have a mind to hear that of you: For I think that I am orthodox.
Although I will not warrant for my Life yet I endeavour all I can, that
it may be suitable to my Profession.
_Au. _ How comes it about then, that there is so great a War between you
and the orthodox?
_Ba. _ Do you enquire into that: But hark you, Doctor, if you are not
displeased with this Introduction, take a small Dinner with me; and
after Dinner, you may enquire of every Thing at Leisure: I'll give you
both Arms to feel my Pulse, and you shall see both Stool and Urine; and
after that, if you please, you shall anatomize this whole Breast of
mine, that you may make a better Judgment of me.
_Au. _ But I make it a matter of Scruple to eat with thee.
_Ba. _ But Physicians use to eat with their Patients, that they might
better observe what they love, and wherein they are irregular.
_Au. _ But I am afraid, lest I should seem to favour Hereticks.
_Ba. _ Nay, but there is nothing more religious than to favour Hereticks.
_Au. _ How so?
_Ba. _ Did not _Paul_ wish to be made an _Anathema_ for the _Jews_, which
were worse than Hereticks? Does not he favour him that endeavours that a
Man may be made a good Man of a bad Man?
_Au. _ Yes, he does so.
_Ba. _ Well then, do you favour me thus, and you need not fear any Thing.
_Au. _ I never heard a sick Man answer more to the Purpose. Well, come
on, let me dine with you then.
_Ba. _ You shall be entertain'd in a physical Way, as it becomes a
Doctor by his Patient, and we will so refresh our Bodies with Food, that
the Mind shall be never the less fit for Disputation.
_Au. _ Well, let it be so, with good Birds (_i. e. _ with good Success).
_Ba. _ Nay, it shall be with bad Fishes, unless you chance to have forgot
that it is _Friday. _
_Au. _ Indeed, that is beside our Creed.
_The OLD MENS DIALOGUE. _
The ARGUMENT.
[Greek: Terontologia], or, [Greek: Ochêma], _shews, as
tho' it were in a Looking-glass, what Things are to be
avoided in Life, and what Things contribute to the
Tranquillity of Life. Old Men that were formerly intimate
Acquaintance when Boys, after forty Years Absence, one
from the other, happen to meet together, going to_
Antwerp. _There seems to be a very great Inequality in
them that are equal in Age. _ Polygamus, _he is very old:_
Glycion _has no Signs of Age upon him, tho' he is sixty
six; he proposes a Method of keeping off old Age. I. He
consults what Sort of Life to chuse, and follows the
Advice of a prudent old Man, who persuades him to marry a
Wife that was his equal, making his Choice with Judgment,
before he falls in Love. 2. He has born a publick Office,
but not obnoxious to troublesome Affairs. 3. He transacts
Affairs that do not expose him to Envy. 4. He bridles his
Tongue. 5. He is not violently fond of, nor averse to any
Thing. He moderates his Affections, suffers no Sorrow to
abide with him all Night. 6. He abstains from Vices, and
renews his Patience every Day. 7. He is not anxiously
thoughtful of Death. 8. He does not travel into foreign
Countries. 9. He has nothing to do with Doctors. 10. He
diverts himself with Study, but does not study himself
lean. On the other hand_, Polygamus _has brought old Age
upon him, by the Intemperance of his Youth, by Drinking,
Whoring, Gaming, running in Debt; he had had eight
Wives. _ Pampirus, _he becomes a Merchant; but consumes
all he has by Gaming; then he becomes a Canon; then a
Carthusian; after that a Benedictine; and last of all,
turns Soldier. _ Eusebius, _he gets a good Benefice and
preaches. _
EUSEBIUS, PAMPIRUS, POLYGAMUS, GLYCION, HUGUITIO, _and_ HARRY _the
Coachman. _
_Euseb. _ What new Faces do I see here? If I am not mistaken, or do not
see clear, I see three old Companions sitting by me; _Pampirus,
Polygamus_ and _Glycion;_ they are certainly the very same.
_Pa. _ What do you mean, with your Glass Eyes, you Wizard? Pray come
nearer a little, _Eusebius. _
_Po. _ Hail, heartily, my wish'd for _Eusebius. _
_Gl. _ All Health to you, the best of Men.
_Eu. _ One Blessing upon you all, my dear Friends. What God, or
providential Chance has brought us together now, for I believe none of
us have seen the one the other, for this forty Years. Why _Mercury_ with
his Mace could not have more luckily brought us together into a Circle;
but what are you doing here?
_Pa. _ We are sitting.
_Eu. _ I see that, but what do you sit for?
_Po. _ We wait for the _Antwerp_ Waggon.
_Eu. _ What, are you going to the Fair?
_Po. _ We are so: but rather Spectators, than Traders, tho' one has one
Business, and another has another.
_Ba. _ A strong Resolution not to be removed from the Opinion that has
been fixed in you. But besides, what Need you fear to become a Fighter,
where the Business is managed by Words?
_Au. _ There is something in what you say, if there be any Hope of doing
any good.
_Ba. _ While there is Life there is Hope, and according to St. _Paul,
Charity can't despair, because it hopes all Things_.
_Au. _ You observe very well, and upon this Hope I may venture to
discourse with you a little; and if you'll permit me, I'll be a
Physician to you.
_Ba. _ Do, with all my Heart.
_Au. _ Inquisitive Persons are commonly hated, but yet Physicians are
allowed to be inquisitive after every particular Thing.
_Ba. _ Ask me any Thing that you have a Mind to ask me.
_Au. _ I'll try. But you must promise me you'll answer me sincerely.
_Ba. _ I'll promise you. But let me know what you'll ask me about.
_Au. _ Concerning the Apostles Creed.
_Ba. _ _Symbolum_ is indeed a military Word. I will be content to be
look'd upon an Enemy to Christ, if I shall deceive you in this Matter.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe in God the Father Almighty, who made the Heaven
and Earth.
_Ba. _ Yes, and whatsoever is contained in the Heaven and Earth, and the
Angels also which are Spirits.
_Au. _ When thou say'st God, what dost thou understand by it?
_Ba. _ I understand a certain eternal Mind, which neither had Beginning
nor shall have any End, than which nothing can be either greater, wiser,
or better.
_Au. _ Thou believest indeed like a good Christian.
_Ba. _ Who by his omnipotent Beck made all Things visible or invisible;
who by his wonderful Wisdom orders and governs all Things; who by his
Goodness feeds and maintains all Things, and freely restored Mankind
when fallen.
_Au. _ These are indeed three especial Attributes in God: But what
Benefit dost thou receive by the Knowledge of them?
_Ba. _ When I conceive him to be Omnipotent, I submit myself wholly to
him, in comparison of whose Majesty, the Excellency of Men and Angels is
nothing. Moreover, I firmly believe whatsoever the holy Scriptures teach
to have been done, and also that what he hath promised shall be done by
him, seeing he can by his single Beck do whatsoever he pleases, how
impossible soever it may seem to Man. And upon that Account distrusting
my own Strength, I depend wholly upon him who can do all Things. When I
consider his Wisdom, I attribute nothing at all to my own, but I believe
all Things are done by him righteously and justly, although they may
seem to human Sense absurd or unjust. When I animadvert on his Goodness,
I see nothing in myself that I do not owe to free Grace, and I think
there is no Sin so great, but he is willing to forgive to a true
Penitent, nor nothing but what he will freely bestow on him that asks in
Faith.
_Au. _ Dost thou think that it is sufficient for thee to believe him to
be so?
_Ba. _ By no Means. But with a sincere Affection I put my whole Trust and
Confidence in him alone, detesting Satan, and all Idolatry, and magic
Arts. I worship him alone, preferring nothing before him, nor equalling
nothing with him, neither Angel, nor my Parents, nor Children, nor Wife,
nor Prince, nor Riches, nor Honours, nor Pleasures; being ready to lay
down my Life if he call for it, being assur'd that he can't possibly
perish who commits himself wholly to him.
_Au. _ What then, dost thou worship nothing, fear nothing, love nothing
but God alone?
_Ba. _ If I reverence any Thing, fear any Thing, or love any Thing, it
is for his Sake I love it, fear it, and reverence it; referring all
Things to his Glory, always giving Thanks to him for whatsoever happens,
whether prosperous or adverse, Life or Death.
_Au. _ In Truth your Confession is very sound so far. What do you think
concerning the second Person?
_Ba. _ Examine me.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe Jesus was God and Man?
_Ba. _ Yes.
_Au. _ Could it be that the same should be both immortal God and mortal
Man?
_Ba. _ That was an easy Thing for him to do who can do what he will: And
by Reason of his divine Nature, which is common to him with the Father,
whatsoever Greatness, Wisdom, and Goodness I attribute to the Father, I
attribute the same to the Son; and whatsoever I owe to the Father, I owe
also to the Son, but only that it hath seemed good to the Father to
bestow all Things on us through him.
_Au. _ Why then do the holy Scriptures more frequently call the Son Lord
than God?
_Ba. _ Because God is a Name of Authority, that is to say, of
Sovereignty, which in an especial Manner belongeth to the Father, who is
absolutely the Original of all Things, and the Fountain even of the
Godhead itself. Lord is the Name of a Redeemer and Deliverer, altho' the
Father also redeemed us by his Son, and the Son is God, but of God the
Father. But the Father only is from none, and obtains the first Place
among the divine Persons.
_Au. _ Then dost thou put thy Confidence in _Jesus_?
_Ba. _ Why not?
_Au. _ But the Prophet calls him accursed who puts his Trust in Man.
_Ba. _ But to this Man alone hath all the Power in Heaven and Earth been
given, that at his Name every Knee should bow, both of Things in Heaven,
Things in Earth, and Things under the Earth. Although I would not put my
chief Confidence and Hope in him, unless he were God.
_Au. _ Why do you call him Son?
_Ba. _ Lest any should imagine him to be a Creature.
_Au. _ Why an only Son?
_Ba. _ To distinguish the natural Son from the Sons by Adoption, the
Honour of which Sirname he imputes to us also, that we may look for no
other besides this Son.
_Au. _ Why would he have him to be made Man, who was God?
_Ba. _ That being Man, he might reconcile Men to God.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe he was conceived without the Help of Man, by the
Operation of the holy Ghost, and born of the undented Virgin _Mary_,
taking a mortal Body of her Substance?
_Ba. _ Yes.
_Au. _ Why would he be so born?
_Ba. _ Because it so became God to be born, because it became him to be
born in this Manner, who was to cleanse away the Filthiness of our
Conception and Birth. God would have him to be born the Son of Man, that
we being regenerated into him, might be made the Sons of God.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe that he lived here upon Earth, did Miracles,
taught those Things that are recorded to us in the Gospel?
_Ba. _ Ay, more certainly than I believe you to be a Man.
_Au. _ I am not an _Apuleius_ turned inside out, that you should suspect
that an Ass lies hid under the Form of a Man. But do you believe this
very Person to be the very Messiah whom the Types of the Law shadowed
out, which the Oracle of the Prophets promised, which the _Jews_ looked
for so many Ages?
_Ba. _ I believe nothing more firmly.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe his Doctrine and Life are sufficient to lead us
to perfect Piety?
_Ba. _ Yes, perfectly sufficient.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe that the same was really apprehended by the
_Jews_, bound, buffeted, beaten, spit upon, mock'd, scourg'd under
_Pontius Pilate_; and lastly, nailed to the Cross, and there died?
_Ba. _ Yes, I do.
_Au. _ Do you believe him to have been free from all the Law of Sin
whatsoever?
_Ba. _ Why should I not? A Lamb without Spot.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe he suffered all these Things of his own accord?
_Ba. _ Not only willingly, but even with great Desire; but according to
the Will of his Father.
_Au. _ Why would the Father have his only Son, being innocent and most
dear to him, suffer all these Things?
_Ba. _ That by this Sacrifice he might reconcile to himself us who were
guilty, we putting our Confidence and Hope in his Name.
_Au. _ Why did God suffer all Mankind thus to fall? And if he did suffer
them, was there no other Way to be found out to repair our Fall?
_Ba. _ Not human Reason, but Faith hath persuaded me of this, that it
could be done no Way better nor more beneficially for our Salvation.
_Au. _ Why did this Kind of Death please him best?
_Ba. _ Because in the Esteem of the World it was the most disgraceful,
and because the Torment of it was cruel and lingring, because it was
meet for him who would invite all the Nations of the World unto
Salvation, with his Members stretch'd out into every Coast of the World,
and call off Men, who were glew'd unto earthly Cares, to heavenly
Things; and, last of all, that he might represent to us the brazen
Serpent that _Moses_ set up upon a Pole, that whoever should fix his
Eyes upon it, should be heal'd of the Wounds of the Serpent, and fulfil
the Prophet's Promise, who prophesied, _say ye among the Nations, God
hath reign'd from a Tree_.
_Au. _ Why would he be buried also, and that so curiously, anointed with
Myrrh and Ointments, inclosed in a new Tomb, cut out of a hard and
natural Rock, the Door being seal'd, and also publick Watchmen set
there?
_Ba. _ That it might be the more manifest that he was really dead.
_Au. _ Why did he not rise again presently?
_Ba. _ For the very same Reason; for if his Death had been doubtful, his
Resurrection had been doubtful too; but he would have that to be as
certain as possible could be.
_Au. _ Do you believe his Soul descended into Hell?
_Ba. _ St. _Cyprian_ affirms that this Clause was not formerly inserted
either in the _Roman_ Creed or in the Creed of the Eastern Churches,
neither is it recorded in _Tertullian_, a very ancient Writer. And yet
notwithstanding, I do firmly believe it, both because it agrees with the
Prophecy of the Psalm, _Thou wilt not leave my Soul in Hell_; and again,
_O Lord, thou hast brought my Soul out of Hell_. And also because the
Apostle _Peter_, in the third Chapter of his first Epistle (of the
Author whereof no Man ever doubted,) writes after this Manner, _Being
put to Death in the Flesh, but quickned by the Spirit, in which also he
came and preach'd by his Spirit to those that were in Prison_. But
though I believe he descended into Hell, yet I believe he did not suffer
anything there. For he descended not to be tormented there, but that he
might destroy the Kingdom of Satan.
_Au. _ Well, I hear nothing yet that is impious; but he died that he
might restore us to Life again, who were dead in Sin. But why did he
rise to live again?
_Ba. _ For three Reasons especially.
_Au. _ Which are they?
_Ba. _ First of all, to give us an assur'd Hope of our Resurrection.
Secondly, that we might know that he in whom we have plac'd the Safety
of our Resurrection is immortal, and shall never die. Lastly, that we
being dead in Sins by Repentance, and buried together with him by
Baptism, should by his Grace be raised up again to Newness of Life.
_Au. _ Do you believe that the very same Body that died upon the Cross,
which reviv'd in the Grave, which was seen and handled by the Disciples,
ascended into Heaven?
_Ba. _ Yes, I do.
_Au. _ Why would he leave the Earth?
_Ba. _ That we might all love him spiritually, and that no Man should
appropriate Christ to himself upon the Earth, but that we should equally
lift up our Minds to Heaven, knowing that our Head is there. For if Men
now so much please themselves in the Colour and Shape of the Garment,
and do boast so much of the Blood or the Foreskin of Christ, and the
Milk of the Virgin _Mary_, what do you think would have been, had he
abode on the Earth, eating and discoursing? What Dissentions would those
Peculiarities of his Body have occasioned?
_Au. _ Dost thou believe that he, being made immortal, sitteth at the
right Hand of the Father?
_Ba. _ Why not? As being Lord of all Things, and Partaker of all his
Father's Kingdom. He promised his Disciples that this should be, and he
presented this Sight to his Martyr _Stephen_.
_Au. _ Why did he shew it?
_Ba. _ That we may not be discouraged in any Thing, well knowing what a
powerful Defender and Lord we have in Heaven.
_Au. _ Do you believe that he will come again in the same Body, to judge
the Quick and the Dead?
_Ba. _ As certain as I am, that those Things the Prophets have foretold
concerning Christ hitherto have come to pass, so certain I am, that
whatsoever he would have us look for for the future, shall come to pass.
We have seen his first Coming, according to the Predictions of the
Prophets, wherein he came in a low Condition, to instruct and save. We
shall also see his second, when he will come on high, in the Glory of
his Father, before whose Judgment-Seat all Men of every Nation, and of
every Condition, whether Kings or Peasants, _Greeks_, or _Scythians_,
shall be compell'd to appear; and not only those, whom at that Coming he
shall find alive, but also all those who have died from the Beginning of
the World, even until that Time, shall suddenly be raised, and behold
his Judge every one in his own Body.
The blessed Angels also shall be
there as faithful Servants, and the Devils to be judg'd. Then he will,
from on high, pronounce that unvoidable Sentence, which will cast the
Devil, together with those that have taken his Part, into eternal
Punishments, that they may not after that, be able to do Mischief to
any. He will translate the Godly, being freed from all Trouble, to a
Fellowship with him in his heavenly Kingdom: Although he would have the
Day of his coming unknown to all.
_Au. _ I hear no Error yet. Let us now come to the third Person.
_Ba. _ As you please.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe in the holy Spirit?
_Ba. _ I do believe that it is true God, together with the Father, and
the Son. I believe they that wrote us the Books of the Old and New
Testament were inspired by it, without whose Help no Man attains
Salvation.
_Au. _ Why is he called a Spirit?
_Ba. _ Because as our Bodies do live by Breath, so our Minds are
quicken'd by the secret Inspiration of the holy Spirit.
_Au. _ Is it not lawful to call the Father a Spirit?
_Ba. _ Why not?
_Au. _ Are not then the Persons confounded?
_Ba. _ No, not at all, for the Father is called a Spirit, because he is
without a Body, which Thing is common to all the Persons, according to
their divine Nature: But the third Person is called a Spirit, because he
breathes out, and transfuses himself insensibly into our Minds, even as
the Air breathes from the Land, or the Rivers.
_Au. _ Why is the Name of Son given to the second Person?
_Ba. _ Because of his perfect Likeness of Nature and Will.
_Au. _ Is the Son more like the Father, than the holy Spirit?
_Ba. _ Not according to the divine Nature, except that he resembles the
Property of the Father the more in this, that the Spirit proceeds from
him also.
_Au. _ What hinders then, but that the holy Spirit may be called Son.
_Ba. _ Because, as St. _Hilary_ saith, I no where read that he was
begotten, neither do I read of his Father: I read of the _Spirit, and
that proceeding from_.
_Au. _ Why is the Father alone called God in the Creed?
_Ba. _ Because he, as I have said before, is simply the Author of all
Things that are, and the Fountain of the whole Deity.
_Au. _ Speak in plainer Terms.
_Ba. _ Because nothing can be nam'd which hath not its Original from the
Father: For indeed, in this very Thing, that the Son and Holy Spirit is
God, they acknowledge that they received it from the Father; therefore
the chief Authority, that is to say, the Cause of Beginning, is in the
Father alone, because he alone is of none: But yet, in the Creed it may
be so taken, that the Name of God may not be proper to one Person, but
used in general; because, it is distinguish'd afterwards by the Terms of
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, into one God; which Word of Nature
comprehends the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; that is to say, the three
Persons.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe in the holy Church?
_Ba. _ No.
_Au. _ What say you? Do you not believe in it?
_Ba. _ I believe the holy Church, which is the Body of Christ; that is to
say, a certain Congregation of all Men throughout the whole World, who
agree in the Faith of the Gospel, who worship one God the Father, who
put their whole Confidence in his Son, who are guided by the same Spirit
of him; from whose Fellowship he is cut off that commits a deadly Sin.
_Au. _ But why do you stick to say, I believe in the holy Church?
_Ba. _ Because St. _Cyprian_ hath taught me, that we must believe in God
alone, in whom we absolutely put all our Confidence. Whereas the Church,
properly so called, although it consists of none but good Men; yet it
consists of Men, who of good may become bad, who may be deceived, and
deceive others.
_Au. _ What do you think of the Communion of Saints?
_Ba. _ This Article is not all meddled with by _Cyprian_, when he
particularly shews what in such and such Churches is more or less used;
for he thus connects them: _For there followeth after this Saying, the
holy Church, the Forgiveness of Sins, the Resurrection of this Flesh_.
And some are of Opinion, that this Part does not differ from the former;
but that it explains and enforces what before was called _the holy
Church_; so that the Church is nothing else but the Profession of one
God, one Gospel, one Faith, one Hope, the Participation of the same
Spirit, and the same Sacraments: To be short, such a Kind of Communion
of all good Things, among all godly Men, who have been from the
Beginning of the World, even to the End of it, as the Fellowship of the
Members of the Body is between one another. So that the good Deeds of
one may help another, until they become lively Members of the Body. But
out of this Society, even one's own good Works do not further his
Salvation, unless he be reconcil'd to the holy Congregation; and
therefore it follows, _the Forgiveness of Sins_; because out of the
Church there is no Remission of Sins, although a Man should pine himself
away with Repentance, and exercise Works of Charity. In the Church, I
say, not of Hereticks, but the holy Church; that is to say, gathered by
the Spirit of Christ, there is Forgiveness of Sins by Baptism, and after
Baptism, by Repentence, and the Keys given to the Church.
_Au. _ Thus far they are the Words of a Man that is sound in the Faith.
Do you believe that there will be a Resurrection of the Flesh?
_Ba. _ I should believe all the rest to no Purpose, if I did not believe
this, which is the Head of all.
_Au. _ What dost thou mean, when thou say'st the Flesh?
_Ba. _ An human Body animated with a human Soul.
_Au. _ Shall every Soul receive its own Body which is left dead?
_Ba. _ The very same from whence it went out; and therefore, in Cyprian's
Creed, it is added, _of this Flesh_.
_Au. _ How can it be, that the Body which hath been now so often chang'd
out of one Thing into another, can rise again the same?
_Ba. _ He who could create whatsoever he would out of nothing, is it a
hard Matter for him to restore to its former Nature that which hath been
changed in its Form? I don't dispute anxiously which Way it can be done;
it is sufficient to me, that he who hath promised that it shall be so,
is so true, that he can't lye, and so powerful, as to be able to bring
to pass with a Beck, whatsoever he pleases.
_Au. _ What need will there be of a Body then?
_Ba. _ That the whole Man may be glorified with Christ, who, in this
World, was wholly afflicted with Christ.
_Au. _ What means that which he adds, _and Life everlasting_.
_Ba. _ Lest any one should think that we shall so rise again, as the
Frogs revive at the Beginning of the Spring, to die again. For here is a
twofold Death of the Body, that is common to all Men, both good and bad;
and of the Soul, and the Death of the Soul is Sin. But after the
Resurrection, the godly shall have everlasting Life, both of Body and
Soul: Nor shall the Body be then any more obnoxious to Diseases, old
Age, Hunger, Thirst, Pain, Weariness, Death, or any Inconveniences; but
being made spiritual, it shall be mov'd as the Spirit will have it: Nor
shall the Soul be any more sollicited with any Vices or Sorrows; but
shall for ever enjoy the chiefest Good, which is God himself. On the
contrary, eternal Death, both of Body and Soul, shall seize upon the
wicked. For their Body shall be made immortal, in order to the enduring
everlasting Torments, and their Soul to be continually vexed with the
Gripes of their Sins, without any Hope of Pardon.
_Au. _ Dost thou believe these things from thy very Heart, and
unfeignedly?
_Ba. _ I believe them so certainly, I tell you, that I am not so sure
that you talk with me.
_Au. _ When I was at _Rome_, I did not find all so sound in the Faith.
_Ba. _ Nay; but if you examine thoroughly, you'll find a great many
others in other Places too, which do not so firmly believe these Things.
_Au. _ Well then, since you agree with us in so many and weighty Points,
what hinders that you are not wholly on our Side?
_Ba. _ I have a mind to hear that of you: For I think that I am orthodox.
Although I will not warrant for my Life yet I endeavour all I can, that
it may be suitable to my Profession.
_Au. _ How comes it about then, that there is so great a War between you
and the orthodox?
_Ba. _ Do you enquire into that: But hark you, Doctor, if you are not
displeased with this Introduction, take a small Dinner with me; and
after Dinner, you may enquire of every Thing at Leisure: I'll give you
both Arms to feel my Pulse, and you shall see both Stool and Urine; and
after that, if you please, you shall anatomize this whole Breast of
mine, that you may make a better Judgment of me.
_Au. _ But I make it a matter of Scruple to eat with thee.
_Ba. _ But Physicians use to eat with their Patients, that they might
better observe what they love, and wherein they are irregular.
_Au. _ But I am afraid, lest I should seem to favour Hereticks.
_Ba. _ Nay, but there is nothing more religious than to favour Hereticks.
_Au. _ How so?
_Ba. _ Did not _Paul_ wish to be made an _Anathema_ for the _Jews_, which
were worse than Hereticks? Does not he favour him that endeavours that a
Man may be made a good Man of a bad Man?
_Au. _ Yes, he does so.
_Ba. _ Well then, do you favour me thus, and you need not fear any Thing.
_Au. _ I never heard a sick Man answer more to the Purpose. Well, come
on, let me dine with you then.
_Ba. _ You shall be entertain'd in a physical Way, as it becomes a
Doctor by his Patient, and we will so refresh our Bodies with Food, that
the Mind shall be never the less fit for Disputation.
_Au. _ Well, let it be so, with good Birds (_i. e. _ with good Success).
_Ba. _ Nay, it shall be with bad Fishes, unless you chance to have forgot
that it is _Friday. _
_Au. _ Indeed, that is beside our Creed.
_The OLD MENS DIALOGUE. _
The ARGUMENT.
[Greek: Terontologia], or, [Greek: Ochêma], _shews, as
tho' it were in a Looking-glass, what Things are to be
avoided in Life, and what Things contribute to the
Tranquillity of Life. Old Men that were formerly intimate
Acquaintance when Boys, after forty Years Absence, one
from the other, happen to meet together, going to_
Antwerp. _There seems to be a very great Inequality in
them that are equal in Age. _ Polygamus, _he is very old:_
Glycion _has no Signs of Age upon him, tho' he is sixty
six; he proposes a Method of keeping off old Age. I. He
consults what Sort of Life to chuse, and follows the
Advice of a prudent old Man, who persuades him to marry a
Wife that was his equal, making his Choice with Judgment,
before he falls in Love. 2. He has born a publick Office,
but not obnoxious to troublesome Affairs. 3. He transacts
Affairs that do not expose him to Envy. 4. He bridles his
Tongue. 5. He is not violently fond of, nor averse to any
Thing. He moderates his Affections, suffers no Sorrow to
abide with him all Night. 6. He abstains from Vices, and
renews his Patience every Day. 7. He is not anxiously
thoughtful of Death. 8. He does not travel into foreign
Countries. 9. He has nothing to do with Doctors. 10. He
diverts himself with Study, but does not study himself
lean. On the other hand_, Polygamus _has brought old Age
upon him, by the Intemperance of his Youth, by Drinking,
Whoring, Gaming, running in Debt; he had had eight
Wives. _ Pampirus, _he becomes a Merchant; but consumes
all he has by Gaming; then he becomes a Canon; then a
Carthusian; after that a Benedictine; and last of all,
turns Soldier. _ Eusebius, _he gets a good Benefice and
preaches. _
EUSEBIUS, PAMPIRUS, POLYGAMUS, GLYCION, HUGUITIO, _and_ HARRY _the
Coachman. _
_Euseb. _ What new Faces do I see here? If I am not mistaken, or do not
see clear, I see three old Companions sitting by me; _Pampirus,
Polygamus_ and _Glycion;_ they are certainly the very same.
_Pa. _ What do you mean, with your Glass Eyes, you Wizard? Pray come
nearer a little, _Eusebius. _
_Po. _ Hail, heartily, my wish'd for _Eusebius. _
_Gl. _ All Health to you, the best of Men.
_Eu. _ One Blessing upon you all, my dear Friends. What God, or
providential Chance has brought us together now, for I believe none of
us have seen the one the other, for this forty Years. Why _Mercury_ with
his Mace could not have more luckily brought us together into a Circle;
but what are you doing here?
_Pa. _ We are sitting.
_Eu. _ I see that, but what do you sit for?
_Po. _ We wait for the _Antwerp_ Waggon.
_Eu. _ What, are you going to the Fair?
_Po. _ We are so: but rather Spectators, than Traders, tho' one has one
Business, and another has another.
