Chlodwig Hohenlohe:
Chlodwig
Karl Viktor (1819-1901), Memoirs of Prince Chlodwig of Hohenhohe-
Schillingsfu ?
Schillingsfu ?
Ezra-Pounds-Chinese-Friends-Stories-in-Letters
To the Hnbl/ FANG P.
S.
to ms/
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [10 October 1951]
64
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
If the Hl/ Fang has any more spare copies of extracts from Hav/ YenChing/ wd/ he in benignity send 'em to
Mary de Rachewiltz
Schloss Brunnenburg, Merano, Italy
marked simply ''For Igor,''
that is for her young ''brother-in-row''
who knows more chinese than her father BUT whom I shd/ like to have
stimulated to KEEP HIS MIND ON the subject. benedictions.
extracts: Igor de Rachewiltz recalls receiving from Fang extracts from Shu jing (Book of History) and Mencius.
42 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] 16 Oct 51
Lacking energy, very hard keep eye Wxed on page, ergo may have missed something. Suppose chinese have indexed 4 books/but may not be copy of index at HaaaVUDD? Wd/ notes like following be any used to Hnbl/ FANG?
Convinced it is more important to understand the 4 Books than to under- stand chinese language, OR let us say UNLESS a man understand the ideograms IN the 4 Books, he never will understand chinese language, or ideogram/and cert/ much more important to grasp the grams in the 4 bks/ than to remember many thousand minor and derivative characters /?
?
Curious that so basic a sign, one so essential to grasp Confucian Anschauung shd/ appear only 3 times in Ta S'eu and 4 in Chung Yung.
Ta S/ III, 3, twice/VII, 1.
Chung Y/ XX, 13 <at Wrst sign might seem weaker use than in Ta S'eu/ but it isn't, on further reXection. >/XXXI 1 & 3/XXXIII, 3.
****
note tuan/Chung Y/ VI/XII, 4 ? [tuan]
****
Has Fang noted the important deWning of ?
? ? ? Chung Y/ XII 4, from the top
?
to ? the bottom. ? dont trust me not to have skipped and missed something. haven't yet been
thru Analects/ and WHATTA DAMN nuisance that printer not getting me my
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 65
bilingual stone AND the seal char/ odes so I can GIT ON and improve my damtrans/lations. how lousily low the noncoherence and muttishness of ALL murkn endamndowments.
Ta S/ III, 3, twice/VII, 1: ''? ? ? ? ? Coherent, splendid and reverent''; ''? ? ? ? ? ? As a minister, in respect'' (Confucius, 40-1); ''? ? ? ? ? if they are Wlled with reverence and respect'' (Confucius, 54-5).
Chung Y/ XX, 13: ''? ? ? ? ? ? he who respects the great ministers will not be led astray'' (Confucius, 156-7).
XXXI 1 & 3/XXXIII, 3: these sections are omitted in Confucius.
tuan/Chung Y/ VI/XII: ''? ? ? ? ? ? ? followed the middle line between these inharmonic
extremes'' (Confucius, 106-7); ''? ? ? ? ? has its origin in ordinary men and women''
(Confucius, 118-19).
the important deWning of ? : '' ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? in its entirety, a rite addressed to heaven and
? ? ? earth'' (Confucius, 118-19).
43
Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
Dear Mr Pound,
Once more my gratitude for If This Be Treason, esp. the paragraphs dealing
with Ce ? line, who (please be prepared for a shock) I had never read. Naturally I read through most of his works this week. I'm now having the book photo- stated for my Poundiana collection, which is the pride of my humble library.
Yes, I immediately mailed the three oVprints to Igor.
Thank you for your note on ? . It is, as you say, Rather curious that the ideogram occurs not too frequently in the Pivot and Digest in despite of the fact that these two books are permeated with the concept of reverentia. Nor is it less interesting to note (I assure you I don't intend to be patronizing) that you have independently come to lay emphasis on this sign, independently of the so-called neo-Confucianists of the Sung dynasty. I wish you would write something on it a bit more extensively. (Some of the neo-C. even cooked up a ritual around that idea: when they sat down to read--reread--K'ung's books, they would Wrst wash their hands, put on their headgears--like women in church service, men had to wear their hats if they wanted to show respect, in China--and burn incense sticks. )
As for the four tuan, Mathews got it--indirectly--from Mencius, p. 79 of your (and my) copy. Poor Mathews. S. v. 6541, 1 and 2 are misleading: ''a clue. '' They should mean rather ''inkling,'' ''a loose thread or two,'' ''the barest beginning. '' 3 seems to be correct, but seldom used. 4 also is misleading, for it is a synonym of 1 & 2. 5 (a part) means really ''an aspect,'' ''a phase. '' No quarrel with 6; only that ''troubles; disturbances'' are to be understood in a more special sense; for the term rather means ''much ado'' as a constitutionally indolent man would
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Oct. 20, 1951
? ? 66 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
understand it. 7 (to make a pretext) should read ''to take . . . as a pretext for . . . '' Sorry to be so nasty to old Mathews, but he was a MERE missionary.
By the way we have here a verbal concordance of the Four Books (done by a Jap. , by the name of Morimoto, who also published a sister volume, that of the Five Classics), a number of v. c. (published by Harvard-Yenching Institute at Peking) of Yi [Book of Changes], Shih (Odes), Shu [Book of History], Analects, Mencius, Chuang-tzu, indices to Li-chi (Liki)[Book of Rites], Chou-li [Rites of Zhou], I-li [Records of Rites], v. c. of K'ung's Ch'un-ch'iu [Spring and Autumn] and its three commentaries (Tso-chuan, Kung-yang chuan, Ku-liang chuan), etc. etc. Indeed, we are equipped with thousand and one tools as well as authentic texts which no Ch. scholars a generation before had dreamed of: only that we are not so learned as those old-fashioned gents.
(If it means anything to you,) I am at one with you about how the Dixionary should be made. (Frankly, however, I do not see what earthly use has a Ch. dix. to anybody, if it is to imitate the NED, and we are told to imitate that model. If the thing is ever to be completed, it will run to 100 times 13 vols. )
As I communicated to Mrs Pound, I am expecting my book on China of 220-264 early next year. (I notice you dealt [with] the period in a few lines. )
Yours respectfully [signed] Achilles Fang
If This Be Treason: If This Be Treason (Siena: Tip. Nuova, 1948).
Ce ? line: among the works of Louis-Ferdinand Ce ? line (1894-1961) are Voyage au bout de la nuit (1932),
Mort a` cre ? dit (1936), and Mea Culpa (1936).
four tuan: see Letters 42 and 44.
the thing: the Harvard-Yenching Chinese-English dictionary, a project dismissed in January 1957. my book on China of 220-264: The Chronicle of the Three Kingdoms (Cambridge, Mass. : Harvard
University Press, 1952).
44 EP to Fang (TL-2; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [October 1951]
Achilles/
Yes. I noted those four tuan in Mencius p. 78/9
II, 1, vi, 5
manhood/equity/ceremonies, propriety/knowledge ? adds to ? which is cert/ NOT love, duty, propriety, knowledge.
which four wd/ have some profundity. taking love as ? <but this might be simply caritas. save for the tree, lower left> but what ideogram translated ''duty''? it is not merely dagger-thru-heart as usual I dongiVVadam who said
? a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 67
it Wrst. Even yr/ prize package Karlgren hit a bullseye in a foot note re/ relative lights of Wre and water/shine outward, shine inward. Not saying he knew what he was printing, but he printed it.
Yes, I thought there must be a concordance/ or several shots at it.
I dont think my suggestion re/ order of english words opposite the ideo- grams wd/ necessarily mean much greater bulk in a dictionary/possibly the contrary.
Await yr/ exposition of 220-264. Having no memory hv/ no idea who was WHO at that time/ but cd/ look it up in child's guide Three Kingdoms/ confusion? ? Plus a dab of aesthetics? Have just come on a civilized german. Chlodwig Hohenlohe 1819-1901 (or mebbe he died a year or so later. )
Knr [Hugh Kenner]/ sez Thoreau quotes Kung (dunno if consciously or not)
Never hv/ seen NED, and have never felt desire to do so but mebbe that is an error? much as I disbelieve it. The main purpose of endowments, empiricly viewed, is to sabotage curiosity.
Hold ON damBIT/
the Mencius is taking four OTHER things as the TUAN or what Mat/ lists as the FOUR TUAN
waaal. cant hold up this note forever/will hv/ to inspect them unfamiliar terms hand
work broom heart
no thats all over the shop. Menc/ ''2nd/ intensity'' sage mountain (TOP, go up) but tuan itself orderly pile hand grip going down (Sherlock) deserving of contemplation.
Legge. Legge. Legge/////UGH
alZo, upper centre LOOKS alike in ? and ?
BUT is it?
mi manca testo seal [I don't have the seal text]
sans which, one guesses, and likely to be betiched by derivation.
four TUAN in Mencius: the Mencian concept of four tuan is Wtted into Canto 85/565:
THE FOUR TUAN1 ?
or foundations.
and it recurs in Cantos 86, 89, 93, 97, and 99.
manhood/equity/ceremonies, propriety/knowledge: Legge renders ? ? ? ? in Mencius, 2. 1. 6. 5 as
''benevolence,'' ''righteousness,'' ''propriety,'' and ''knowledge'' (Legge, ii. 202-3).
? adds to ? : ? (light) added to ? (to know) is ? (sense of right and wrong), the last of the ''four
TUAN. ''
68 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
love, duty, propriety, knowledge: under 6541 ? , Mathews lists seven meanings (see Letter 42) plus ? ? (four tuan): ''love, duty, propriety, and wisdom. ''
Karlgren: Bernhard Karlgren, Analytic Dictionary of Chinese and Sino-Japanese (1923).
yr/exposition of 220-264: see Letter 43 n.
Chlodwig Hohenlohe: Chlodwig Karl Viktor (1819-1901), Memoirs of Prince Chlodwig of Hohenhohe-
Schillingsfu ? erst (1906).
Knr [Hugh Kenner]/ sez Thoreau quotes Kung: Thoreau quotes Analects, 2. 17 in Walden: ''Confucius
said, 'To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, this is true knowledge. ' '' See Walden in The Norton Anthology of American Literature, ed, Nina Baym (New York: W. W. Norton & Co. , 2003), vol. B, 1812.
? and ? : ? (shame) is used in Mencius, 2. 1. 6 to deWne ? , the second tuan: ''? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The feeling of shame and dislike is the principle of righteousness'' (Legge, ii. 203).
45 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [21 November 1951]
O FANG
The focus of energy on getting the goddam obstacles OUT of the way? ? ? Until Ez got STONES bound up facing yankwords various points not clear to Ez. continual observation, mind free from unnecessary bothers, aids observation
T'ang stone calligraphy.
Conceivable that Chiang Heng calligraphy somewhat resembled very admir-
able by no mean ordinary T'ang.
Elimination of unnecessary strokes/DISTINCTION between forms which
are NOT (biGum) clearly visible in other calligs/ and prints.
All this demanding repeated observation by senile correspondent/BUT goDDDAMMIT the WORST impediment to Ez learning a little more is the
NON-presence of ODES bound facing the SEAL text/
until that, no way to answer various wild guesses/ AND . . . also the question
of whether when the possibly greatest intellectual operation in history, the metamorphosis from seal to square character/whether the blokes who squared, followed precedent ALWAYS, or in several (? quite a few) cases improved the combination of signs.
All of which not a querry to be answered ''straight oV the bat'' as Muss [olini]/sd/re/elimination of taxes by having money represent work done.
benedictions.
P. S. wotTheHell I mean IZ: does Fang see any way to accelerate the Laughlin, Kimball etc/ to GIT bloody ON with printing the ODES?
The T'ang had ALREADY attained a graphic representation eliminating various ambiguities (to say nothing of the satisfactory proportion of the graphs).
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 69
DAWN the sloppy callig/rz and type cutters who have degenerated from this level. [In DP's hand:] and, P. S. what kind of stone has been used?
Chiang Heng: the calligrapher of the Qing Stone-Classics.
Laughlin, Kimball: see Glossary on Laughlin, James and Kimball, Dudley.
46 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [25 November 1951]
INcidentally Monsieur FANG
your preface is very well written, and the translation from CH'ien-Lung thus
showing that familiarity with the classics in one language, especially that of the Middle Kingdom, conduces to admirable use of another.
I trust the imperfections of the artigianato [artisan, craftsman] will not unduly disturb you, perfection cannot be attained by mere ten months of not stepping on gas.
yours fraternally
I TRUST the egregious Laughlin has caused his slaves to post copies to you simultaneously with his sending them hither.
your preface: ''A Note on the Stone-Classics'' with a translation of an extract from Qianlong's 1794 preface to the Qing Stone-Classics (Confucius, 11-15).
47 Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Nov 28, 1951
Dear Mr Pound,
Just received a copy of the PIVOT. It looks very good; I like to believe that
New Directions has not brought out a more perfect book. In fact, a student writing his thesis here was so attracted to it that he had to buy a copy.
I have just written Laughlin asking him why the printing of the Odes is delayed and oVering to help Kimball out. Meanwhile if you tell me what sort of a seal text you are having printed, I may be able to send you that text from the library here, provided we have it. Will you please send me the sample sheet you showed me last year?
I am afraid I can't satisfy Mrs Pound's justiWable curiosity: the books I consulted do not say what sort of stone was used. Perhaps granite? or is it marble?
70 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
I have here a copy of Legge's Shu-king [Book of History], pirated, looking exactly similar to your Four Books. If you are interested in this Liber Librorum [Book of Books] of China I shall mail it to you immediately.
Yours respectfully [signed] Achilles Fang
Kimball: see Glossary on Kimball, Dudley.
48 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [6 December 1951]
? [phoenix] O FANG (FENG)
TWO years ago the BLOODY Kimball HAD all the fotos/ of lesser seal odes (sd/ to be foto/d) fr/ only seal text in this dummy/sphere.
AND he measured out the sample page/ about 9 by 6 to take translation <TO FACE the seal text, divided strophe by strophe indicating articulation of the ODE> AND the romanj [sound key] spaced out to indicate a POSSIBLE, or at least interesting scansion of the SOUND of the blinkink text (not in archaic, save one or two spots where one wanted the onomatopoeia of the plop of the Wshtails. )
also NOT uniform, BEcause wanted a diagram to test conjecture that the variations took place in a dimension that does NOT interfere with the prosody and tone leading.
AND gramPAW canNOTTTTT git on proWtably, with his meditation on the Shih [Odes] UNTIL he has it bound up in this CONvenient form.
UNTIL STONE klassikcz are face to face with the yanki's thus like certain points continue (continued) to avoid senile eye of
yr/ anonYmouse kurryspondink.
49 EP to Fang (TL-1)
O FANG
and the tribe of FANG for the new year.
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [24 December 1951]
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 71
Does Fang think there is a way of getting STONE edition to the councilor or ex-councilor Tcheou (or however he spells it now)? After all it was Tcheou who, when I took him the italian Ta S'eu, asked if I had read Pivot.
I have no address book of those days/I am not sure whether Tcheou's son has been put in charge of the Oriental Institute in Roma /
or that the delicacies of politics wd/ encourage him to communicate with Washington address. BUT the dignity of Harvard, possibly on oYcial stationary, addressed to the Istituto Studi Orientali, Roma, Italy by the hnbl/Fang might elicit an answer or an address. Of course the frowsy ole Insteroot ought to buy a copy/ after all their one time geographer and head under the deplorato regime, told me about Karlgren (wotever F's opinion of that tongue blocking Sweede). I mean Tuci HAD heard of a sweedish organization.
My ''son-in-row'' has sent on a hieroglyphic vocabulary, which designs, according to local hellenist ''are as good as animal crackers. ''
? Benedictions anon Y mouse
Tcheou: Tchu (Zhu); see Letter 9 n.
Karlgren: see Glossary on Karlgren, Bernhard.
Tuci: see Glossary on Tucci, Giuseppe.
My ''son-in-row'': see Glossary on De Rachewiltz, Boris.
50 Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
Dear Mr Pound,
During the late twenties and early thirties there used to be a ? ? in the
Chinese Legation at Rome. But he could not have spelt his name as Tcheou, which would stand for ? .
My colleague here, former ex-consul (Boston) Wang, has written to his N. Y. friends. If this source fails, I shall write to Tucci.
Yesterday I mailed you my Chronicle of Three Kingdoms; but it is so dull. Vol. 2, which will contain the facts about
Lieou-Tchin died in hall of the forebears-- when his father wd/ not die Wghting--
by suicide, slaying his children and consort [54/281] is to appear next summer.
Jas. Laughlin was here sometime ago. He is going to turn over your Ode MSS to me so that I may sort out the seal-script text for you. J. L. told me that old Kimbal seems to be losing his mind.
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Dec. 29, 1951
? 72 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
With best wishes for the New Year,
Respectfully [signed] Achilles Fang
? ? : in a letter to EP of 4 January 1952 (Lilly), Fang forwards the address of ? ? (EP's Sig. Tcheou). See Letters 12 and 23.
my Chronicle of Three Kingdoms: see Letter 43 n. Jas. Laughlin: see Glossary on Laughlin, James. old Kimbal: see Glossary on Kimball, Dudley.
51 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [4 January 1952]
O FANG
Thanks re/ Tsheou, who did NOT spell it like the dynasty/either in ideogram
or in wop [Italian].
O, FANG, godddDAMMIT
ALL that odes ms/ is measured out to a milligram, so that the ENGLISH and the romanj can be set page by page, so as to SHOW the strophic form of the original. WHEN the english strophes etc/ are COMposed, as pages then one can cut up the seal text so that a strip of SEAL would face and correspond, with and to the translation. ALL of which the Kimball SWORE he understood/and made sample page of english and romanj/and SAID he wd/ then cut the metal plates for the seal, AS
I should indicate by cutting up the fotos/ benediction
and WHOOF.
[In DP's hand:] Private P. S.
I do wish this could be got under way- - -
EP wants it for his own use . . . & the delay makes him furious. This was all two years ago.
a very pretty page, after several tries.
52 EP to Fang (TL-2; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [14 January 1952]
O FANG
Gloria enjoying yr/ history, wants [to] know if yu hv/ published anything
else (apart from note on Stones). I dont dare tell her she took the bk/ by mistake
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 73
before I had read it, as she is already too much overawed, and wd/ be too distressed at having done so.
Than' Q. for the volume. In mean time the ignote but admirable Schmidt has sent in 8 vols/ southern anthol/ plus 5 or 6 of Chu Hsi's commentary. <? ? ? ? > How many characters are going into yr/ new Dictionary? I note that
Mathews seems to hv/ omitted ? ?
a lot of combines seem to keep und fu, which wd/ here be fu fu? ? ? 2-5 as with
? which makes sense as it applies to dust, line preceding has whirl-wind.
As to cultural discipline, young Pablos charged in yester with 6 or 7 copies Stone Edtn/ 4 or 5 bought for his friends and 2 for Valle. He sd/ Bob NEEDED
it and that I wd/ prob/ get writers cramp signing the lot.
The impertinence on back of cover is, as I trust you have recognized, a whim
of the producer and pub/r, and was not submitted for my approval.
Another I cant Wnd in our beloved Mathews is earth under hemp/ ? rad[ical]
32/ under rad 200. Fog like hemp plantation? underbrush, or dirty cloth?
whoever this moralizing bloke is, his continual e^rh pu, is VURRY NOT music.
? this is ridiKUlus, must hv/seen it dozen times, but cant Wnd in M/ ? having 2
todowithjou 3133/orwott'ell? oftenmeaningnotimportant. butwantsome indication of approx sound.
yeh3 ? ?
Gloria: Gloria French, wife of the American poet and musician William French.
Schmidt: unidentiWed.
southern anthol . . . <? ? ? ? >: Chuci, an anthology of poems by Qu Yuan and other ancient
Chinese poets annotated by Zhu Xi.
Valle: retired lieutenant general Pedro A. del Valle, a defender of EP, is listed in Canto 105/771.
53 Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Jan 15, 1952
Dear Mr Pound,
Exceedingly glad to hear that you've got Ch'u-tz'u [Southern Anthology], for
you will meet again a number of familiar faces. ? ? is Ch'u ? Yu ? an (*kiu t ngiOn <*6th cent. sounds; we are not certain of earlier sounds>): you have AFTER CH'U ? YUAN, which seems to be based on Giles' History (text ? ? , ? ? : ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . . . ) and SONG OF THE BOWMEN OF SHU, which in 1915 Cathay was attributed to KUTSUGEN (which is Jap.
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [10 October 1951]
64
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
If the Hl/ Fang has any more spare copies of extracts from Hav/ YenChing/ wd/ he in benignity send 'em to
Mary de Rachewiltz
Schloss Brunnenburg, Merano, Italy
marked simply ''For Igor,''
that is for her young ''brother-in-row''
who knows more chinese than her father BUT whom I shd/ like to have
stimulated to KEEP HIS MIND ON the subject. benedictions.
extracts: Igor de Rachewiltz recalls receiving from Fang extracts from Shu jing (Book of History) and Mencius.
42 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] 16 Oct 51
Lacking energy, very hard keep eye Wxed on page, ergo may have missed something. Suppose chinese have indexed 4 books/but may not be copy of index at HaaaVUDD? Wd/ notes like following be any used to Hnbl/ FANG?
Convinced it is more important to understand the 4 Books than to under- stand chinese language, OR let us say UNLESS a man understand the ideograms IN the 4 Books, he never will understand chinese language, or ideogram/and cert/ much more important to grasp the grams in the 4 bks/ than to remember many thousand minor and derivative characters /?
?
Curious that so basic a sign, one so essential to grasp Confucian Anschauung shd/ appear only 3 times in Ta S'eu and 4 in Chung Yung.
Ta S/ III, 3, twice/VII, 1.
Chung Y/ XX, 13 <at Wrst sign might seem weaker use than in Ta S'eu/ but it isn't, on further reXection. >/XXXI 1 & 3/XXXIII, 3.
****
note tuan/Chung Y/ VI/XII, 4 ? [tuan]
****
Has Fang noted the important deWning of ?
? ? ? Chung Y/ XII 4, from the top
?
to ? the bottom. ? dont trust me not to have skipped and missed something. haven't yet been
thru Analects/ and WHATTA DAMN nuisance that printer not getting me my
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 65
bilingual stone AND the seal char/ odes so I can GIT ON and improve my damtrans/lations. how lousily low the noncoherence and muttishness of ALL murkn endamndowments.
Ta S/ III, 3, twice/VII, 1: ''? ? ? ? ? Coherent, splendid and reverent''; ''? ? ? ? ? ? As a minister, in respect'' (Confucius, 40-1); ''? ? ? ? ? if they are Wlled with reverence and respect'' (Confucius, 54-5).
Chung Y/ XX, 13: ''? ? ? ? ? ? he who respects the great ministers will not be led astray'' (Confucius, 156-7).
XXXI 1 & 3/XXXIII, 3: these sections are omitted in Confucius.
tuan/Chung Y/ VI/XII: ''? ? ? ? ? ? ? followed the middle line between these inharmonic
extremes'' (Confucius, 106-7); ''? ? ? ? ? has its origin in ordinary men and women''
(Confucius, 118-19).
the important deWning of ? : '' ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? in its entirety, a rite addressed to heaven and
? ? ? earth'' (Confucius, 118-19).
43
Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
Dear Mr Pound,
Once more my gratitude for If This Be Treason, esp. the paragraphs dealing
with Ce ? line, who (please be prepared for a shock) I had never read. Naturally I read through most of his works this week. I'm now having the book photo- stated for my Poundiana collection, which is the pride of my humble library.
Yes, I immediately mailed the three oVprints to Igor.
Thank you for your note on ? . It is, as you say, Rather curious that the ideogram occurs not too frequently in the Pivot and Digest in despite of the fact that these two books are permeated with the concept of reverentia. Nor is it less interesting to note (I assure you I don't intend to be patronizing) that you have independently come to lay emphasis on this sign, independently of the so-called neo-Confucianists of the Sung dynasty. I wish you would write something on it a bit more extensively. (Some of the neo-C. even cooked up a ritual around that idea: when they sat down to read--reread--K'ung's books, they would Wrst wash their hands, put on their headgears--like women in church service, men had to wear their hats if they wanted to show respect, in China--and burn incense sticks. )
As for the four tuan, Mathews got it--indirectly--from Mencius, p. 79 of your (and my) copy. Poor Mathews. S. v. 6541, 1 and 2 are misleading: ''a clue. '' They should mean rather ''inkling,'' ''a loose thread or two,'' ''the barest beginning. '' 3 seems to be correct, but seldom used. 4 also is misleading, for it is a synonym of 1 & 2. 5 (a part) means really ''an aspect,'' ''a phase. '' No quarrel with 6; only that ''troubles; disturbances'' are to be understood in a more special sense; for the term rather means ''much ado'' as a constitutionally indolent man would
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Oct. 20, 1951
? ? 66 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
understand it. 7 (to make a pretext) should read ''to take . . . as a pretext for . . . '' Sorry to be so nasty to old Mathews, but he was a MERE missionary.
By the way we have here a verbal concordance of the Four Books (done by a Jap. , by the name of Morimoto, who also published a sister volume, that of the Five Classics), a number of v. c. (published by Harvard-Yenching Institute at Peking) of Yi [Book of Changes], Shih (Odes), Shu [Book of History], Analects, Mencius, Chuang-tzu, indices to Li-chi (Liki)[Book of Rites], Chou-li [Rites of Zhou], I-li [Records of Rites], v. c. of K'ung's Ch'un-ch'iu [Spring and Autumn] and its three commentaries (Tso-chuan, Kung-yang chuan, Ku-liang chuan), etc. etc. Indeed, we are equipped with thousand and one tools as well as authentic texts which no Ch. scholars a generation before had dreamed of: only that we are not so learned as those old-fashioned gents.
(If it means anything to you,) I am at one with you about how the Dixionary should be made. (Frankly, however, I do not see what earthly use has a Ch. dix. to anybody, if it is to imitate the NED, and we are told to imitate that model. If the thing is ever to be completed, it will run to 100 times 13 vols. )
As I communicated to Mrs Pound, I am expecting my book on China of 220-264 early next year. (I notice you dealt [with] the period in a few lines. )
Yours respectfully [signed] Achilles Fang
If This Be Treason: If This Be Treason (Siena: Tip. Nuova, 1948).
Ce ? line: among the works of Louis-Ferdinand Ce ? line (1894-1961) are Voyage au bout de la nuit (1932),
Mort a` cre ? dit (1936), and Mea Culpa (1936).
four tuan: see Letters 42 and 44.
the thing: the Harvard-Yenching Chinese-English dictionary, a project dismissed in January 1957. my book on China of 220-264: The Chronicle of the Three Kingdoms (Cambridge, Mass. : Harvard
University Press, 1952).
44 EP to Fang (TL-2; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [October 1951]
Achilles/
Yes. I noted those four tuan in Mencius p. 78/9
II, 1, vi, 5
manhood/equity/ceremonies, propriety/knowledge ? adds to ? which is cert/ NOT love, duty, propriety, knowledge.
which four wd/ have some profundity. taking love as ? <but this might be simply caritas. save for the tree, lower left> but what ideogram translated ''duty''? it is not merely dagger-thru-heart as usual I dongiVVadam who said
? a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 67
it Wrst. Even yr/ prize package Karlgren hit a bullseye in a foot note re/ relative lights of Wre and water/shine outward, shine inward. Not saying he knew what he was printing, but he printed it.
Yes, I thought there must be a concordance/ or several shots at it.
I dont think my suggestion re/ order of english words opposite the ideo- grams wd/ necessarily mean much greater bulk in a dictionary/possibly the contrary.
Await yr/ exposition of 220-264. Having no memory hv/ no idea who was WHO at that time/ but cd/ look it up in child's guide Three Kingdoms/ confusion? ? Plus a dab of aesthetics? Have just come on a civilized german. Chlodwig Hohenlohe 1819-1901 (or mebbe he died a year or so later. )
Knr [Hugh Kenner]/ sez Thoreau quotes Kung (dunno if consciously or not)
Never hv/ seen NED, and have never felt desire to do so but mebbe that is an error? much as I disbelieve it. The main purpose of endowments, empiricly viewed, is to sabotage curiosity.
Hold ON damBIT/
the Mencius is taking four OTHER things as the TUAN or what Mat/ lists as the FOUR TUAN
waaal. cant hold up this note forever/will hv/ to inspect them unfamiliar terms hand
work broom heart
no thats all over the shop. Menc/ ''2nd/ intensity'' sage mountain (TOP, go up) but tuan itself orderly pile hand grip going down (Sherlock) deserving of contemplation.
Legge. Legge. Legge/////UGH
alZo, upper centre LOOKS alike in ? and ?
BUT is it?
mi manca testo seal [I don't have the seal text]
sans which, one guesses, and likely to be betiched by derivation.
four TUAN in Mencius: the Mencian concept of four tuan is Wtted into Canto 85/565:
THE FOUR TUAN1 ?
or foundations.
and it recurs in Cantos 86, 89, 93, 97, and 99.
manhood/equity/ceremonies, propriety/knowledge: Legge renders ? ? ? ? in Mencius, 2. 1. 6. 5 as
''benevolence,'' ''righteousness,'' ''propriety,'' and ''knowledge'' (Legge, ii. 202-3).
? adds to ? : ? (light) added to ? (to know) is ? (sense of right and wrong), the last of the ''four
TUAN. ''
68 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
love, duty, propriety, knowledge: under 6541 ? , Mathews lists seven meanings (see Letter 42) plus ? ? (four tuan): ''love, duty, propriety, and wisdom. ''
Karlgren: Bernhard Karlgren, Analytic Dictionary of Chinese and Sino-Japanese (1923).
yr/exposition of 220-264: see Letter 43 n.
Chlodwig Hohenlohe: Chlodwig Karl Viktor (1819-1901), Memoirs of Prince Chlodwig of Hohenhohe-
Schillingsfu ? erst (1906).
Knr [Hugh Kenner]/ sez Thoreau quotes Kung: Thoreau quotes Analects, 2. 17 in Walden: ''Confucius
said, 'To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, this is true knowledge. ' '' See Walden in The Norton Anthology of American Literature, ed, Nina Baym (New York: W. W. Norton & Co. , 2003), vol. B, 1812.
? and ? : ? (shame) is used in Mencius, 2. 1. 6 to deWne ? , the second tuan: ''? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? The feeling of shame and dislike is the principle of righteousness'' (Legge, ii. 203).
45 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [21 November 1951]
O FANG
The focus of energy on getting the goddam obstacles OUT of the way? ? ? Until Ez got STONES bound up facing yankwords various points not clear to Ez. continual observation, mind free from unnecessary bothers, aids observation
T'ang stone calligraphy.
Conceivable that Chiang Heng calligraphy somewhat resembled very admir-
able by no mean ordinary T'ang.
Elimination of unnecessary strokes/DISTINCTION between forms which
are NOT (biGum) clearly visible in other calligs/ and prints.
All this demanding repeated observation by senile correspondent/BUT goDDDAMMIT the WORST impediment to Ez learning a little more is the
NON-presence of ODES bound facing the SEAL text/
until that, no way to answer various wild guesses/ AND . . . also the question
of whether when the possibly greatest intellectual operation in history, the metamorphosis from seal to square character/whether the blokes who squared, followed precedent ALWAYS, or in several (? quite a few) cases improved the combination of signs.
All of which not a querry to be answered ''straight oV the bat'' as Muss [olini]/sd/re/elimination of taxes by having money represent work done.
benedictions.
P. S. wotTheHell I mean IZ: does Fang see any way to accelerate the Laughlin, Kimball etc/ to GIT bloody ON with printing the ODES?
The T'ang had ALREADY attained a graphic representation eliminating various ambiguities (to say nothing of the satisfactory proportion of the graphs).
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 69
DAWN the sloppy callig/rz and type cutters who have degenerated from this level. [In DP's hand:] and, P. S. what kind of stone has been used?
Chiang Heng: the calligrapher of the Qing Stone-Classics.
Laughlin, Kimball: see Glossary on Laughlin, James and Kimball, Dudley.
46 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [25 November 1951]
INcidentally Monsieur FANG
your preface is very well written, and the translation from CH'ien-Lung thus
showing that familiarity with the classics in one language, especially that of the Middle Kingdom, conduces to admirable use of another.
I trust the imperfections of the artigianato [artisan, craftsman] will not unduly disturb you, perfection cannot be attained by mere ten months of not stepping on gas.
yours fraternally
I TRUST the egregious Laughlin has caused his slaves to post copies to you simultaneously with his sending them hither.
your preface: ''A Note on the Stone-Classics'' with a translation of an extract from Qianlong's 1794 preface to the Qing Stone-Classics (Confucius, 11-15).
47 Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Nov 28, 1951
Dear Mr Pound,
Just received a copy of the PIVOT. It looks very good; I like to believe that
New Directions has not brought out a more perfect book. In fact, a student writing his thesis here was so attracted to it that he had to buy a copy.
I have just written Laughlin asking him why the printing of the Odes is delayed and oVering to help Kimball out. Meanwhile if you tell me what sort of a seal text you are having printed, I may be able to send you that text from the library here, provided we have it. Will you please send me the sample sheet you showed me last year?
I am afraid I can't satisfy Mrs Pound's justiWable curiosity: the books I consulted do not say what sort of stone was used. Perhaps granite? or is it marble?
70 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
I have here a copy of Legge's Shu-king [Book of History], pirated, looking exactly similar to your Four Books. If you are interested in this Liber Librorum [Book of Books] of China I shall mail it to you immediately.
Yours respectfully [signed] Achilles Fang
Kimball: see Glossary on Kimball, Dudley.
48 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [6 December 1951]
? [phoenix] O FANG (FENG)
TWO years ago the BLOODY Kimball HAD all the fotos/ of lesser seal odes (sd/ to be foto/d) fr/ only seal text in this dummy/sphere.
AND he measured out the sample page/ about 9 by 6 to take translation <TO FACE the seal text, divided strophe by strophe indicating articulation of the ODE> AND the romanj [sound key] spaced out to indicate a POSSIBLE, or at least interesting scansion of the SOUND of the blinkink text (not in archaic, save one or two spots where one wanted the onomatopoeia of the plop of the Wshtails. )
also NOT uniform, BEcause wanted a diagram to test conjecture that the variations took place in a dimension that does NOT interfere with the prosody and tone leading.
AND gramPAW canNOTTTTT git on proWtably, with his meditation on the Shih [Odes] UNTIL he has it bound up in this CONvenient form.
UNTIL STONE klassikcz are face to face with the yanki's thus like certain points continue (continued) to avoid senile eye of
yr/ anonYmouse kurryspondink.
49 EP to Fang (TL-1)
O FANG
and the tribe of FANG for the new year.
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [24 December 1951]
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 71
Does Fang think there is a way of getting STONE edition to the councilor or ex-councilor Tcheou (or however he spells it now)? After all it was Tcheou who, when I took him the italian Ta S'eu, asked if I had read Pivot.
I have no address book of those days/I am not sure whether Tcheou's son has been put in charge of the Oriental Institute in Roma /
or that the delicacies of politics wd/ encourage him to communicate with Washington address. BUT the dignity of Harvard, possibly on oYcial stationary, addressed to the Istituto Studi Orientali, Roma, Italy by the hnbl/Fang might elicit an answer or an address. Of course the frowsy ole Insteroot ought to buy a copy/ after all their one time geographer and head under the deplorato regime, told me about Karlgren (wotever F's opinion of that tongue blocking Sweede). I mean Tuci HAD heard of a sweedish organization.
My ''son-in-row'' has sent on a hieroglyphic vocabulary, which designs, according to local hellenist ''are as good as animal crackers. ''
? Benedictions anon Y mouse
Tcheou: Tchu (Zhu); see Letter 9 n.
Karlgren: see Glossary on Karlgren, Bernhard.
Tuci: see Glossary on Tucci, Giuseppe.
My ''son-in-row'': see Glossary on De Rachewiltz, Boris.
50 Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
Dear Mr Pound,
During the late twenties and early thirties there used to be a ? ? in the
Chinese Legation at Rome. But he could not have spelt his name as Tcheou, which would stand for ? .
My colleague here, former ex-consul (Boston) Wang, has written to his N. Y. friends. If this source fails, I shall write to Tucci.
Yesterday I mailed you my Chronicle of Three Kingdoms; but it is so dull. Vol. 2, which will contain the facts about
Lieou-Tchin died in hall of the forebears-- when his father wd/ not die Wghting--
by suicide, slaying his children and consort [54/281] is to appear next summer.
Jas. Laughlin was here sometime ago. He is going to turn over your Ode MSS to me so that I may sort out the seal-script text for you. J. L. told me that old Kimbal seems to be losing his mind.
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Dec. 29, 1951
? 72 a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius
With best wishes for the New Year,
Respectfully [signed] Achilles Fang
? ? : in a letter to EP of 4 January 1952 (Lilly), Fang forwards the address of ? ? (EP's Sig. Tcheou). See Letters 12 and 23.
my Chronicle of Three Kingdoms: see Letter 43 n. Jas. Laughlin: see Glossary on Laughlin, James. old Kimbal: see Glossary on Kimball, Dudley.
51 EP to Fang (TL-1; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [4 January 1952]
O FANG
Thanks re/ Tsheou, who did NOT spell it like the dynasty/either in ideogram
or in wop [Italian].
O, FANG, godddDAMMIT
ALL that odes ms/ is measured out to a milligram, so that the ENGLISH and the romanj can be set page by page, so as to SHOW the strophic form of the original. WHEN the english strophes etc/ are COMposed, as pages then one can cut up the seal text so that a strip of SEAL would face and correspond, with and to the translation. ALL of which the Kimball SWORE he understood/and made sample page of english and romanj/and SAID he wd/ then cut the metal plates for the seal, AS
I should indicate by cutting up the fotos/ benediction
and WHOOF.
[In DP's hand:] Private P. S.
I do wish this could be got under way- - -
EP wants it for his own use . . . & the delay makes him furious. This was all two years ago.
a very pretty page, after several tries.
52 EP to Fang (TL-2; Beinecke)
[St Elizabeths Hospital] [Washington, DC] [14 January 1952]
O FANG
Gloria enjoying yr/ history, wants [to] know if yu hv/ published anything
else (apart from note on Stones). I dont dare tell her she took the bk/ by mistake
a. fang and pound's bilingual confucius 73
before I had read it, as she is already too much overawed, and wd/ be too distressed at having done so.
Than' Q. for the volume. In mean time the ignote but admirable Schmidt has sent in 8 vols/ southern anthol/ plus 5 or 6 of Chu Hsi's commentary. <? ? ? ? > How many characters are going into yr/ new Dictionary? I note that
Mathews seems to hv/ omitted ? ?
a lot of combines seem to keep und fu, which wd/ here be fu fu? ? ? 2-5 as with
? which makes sense as it applies to dust, line preceding has whirl-wind.
As to cultural discipline, young Pablos charged in yester with 6 or 7 copies Stone Edtn/ 4 or 5 bought for his friends and 2 for Valle. He sd/ Bob NEEDED
it and that I wd/ prob/ get writers cramp signing the lot.
The impertinence on back of cover is, as I trust you have recognized, a whim
of the producer and pub/r, and was not submitted for my approval.
Another I cant Wnd in our beloved Mathews is earth under hemp/ ? rad[ical]
32/ under rad 200. Fog like hemp plantation? underbrush, or dirty cloth?
whoever this moralizing bloke is, his continual e^rh pu, is VURRY NOT music.
? this is ridiKUlus, must hv/seen it dozen times, but cant Wnd in M/ ? having 2
todowithjou 3133/orwott'ell? oftenmeaningnotimportant. butwantsome indication of approx sound.
yeh3 ? ?
Gloria: Gloria French, wife of the American poet and musician William French.
Schmidt: unidentiWed.
southern anthol . . . <? ? ? ? >: Chuci, an anthology of poems by Qu Yuan and other ancient
Chinese poets annotated by Zhu Xi.
Valle: retired lieutenant general Pedro A. del Valle, a defender of EP, is listed in Canto 105/771.
53 Fang to EP (TLS-1; Lilly)
[Cambridge, Mass. ] Jan 15, 1952
Dear Mr Pound,
Exceedingly glad to hear that you've got Ch'u-tz'u [Southern Anthology], for
you will meet again a number of familiar faces. ? ? is Ch'u ? Yu ? an (*kiu t ngiOn <*6th cent. sounds; we are not certain of earlier sounds>): you have AFTER CH'U ? YUAN, which seems to be based on Giles' History (text ? ? , ? ? : ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . . . ) and SONG OF THE BOWMEN OF SHU, which in 1915 Cathay was attributed to KUTSUGEN (which is Jap.
