You may ask
whatever
you like.
Shobogenzo
�Inside the
stupa,� �before the Buddha,� �the treasure stupa,� and �space� are not of
Vulture Peak; they are not of the world of Dharma; they are not a halfway
stage; and they are not of the whole world. Nor are they concerned with only
a �concrete place in the Dharma. �172 They are simply �different from think-
ing. �173 There is turning the Flower of Dharma either in �manifesting the
body of Buddha and preaching the Dharma for others�174 or in manifesting
this body and preaching the Dharma for others. Or turning the Flower of
Dharma is the manifestation of Devadatta. 175 Or there is turning the Flower
of Dharma in the manifestation of �to retreat also is fine. �176 Do not always
measure �the waiting, with palms held together and [faces] looking up,�177
as �sixty minor kalpas. �178 Even if the length of �wholehearted waiting�179
is condensed into just a few countless kalpas, still it will be impossible to
fathom the �buddha-wisdom. �180 As how much buddha-wisdom should we
see a wholehearted mind that is waiting? Do not see this turning the Flower
of Dharma only as �the bodhisattva way practiced in the past. �181 Wherever
the Flower of Dharma is a total order the virtue is that of turning the Flower
of Dharma, [and it is expressed] as, �The Tathagata preaches the Great Vehi-
cle today. �182 [When] the Flower of Dharma just now is the Flower of Dharma,
it is �neither sensed nor recognized,�183 and at the same time it is �beyond
knowing� and �beyond understanding. �184 This being so, �five hundred
[ink]drop [kalpas]�185 are a brief thousandth [of an instant] of turning the
Flower of Dharma; they are the Buddha's lifetime being proclaimed by each
moment of red mind.
[70] In conclusion, in the hundreds of years since this sutra was trans-
mitted into China, to be turned as the Flower of Dharma, very many people,
here and there, have produced their commentaries and interpretations. Some,
moreover, have attained the Dharma state of an eminent person by relying
on this sutra. But no one has grasped the point of �the Flower of Dharma
turning,� or mastered the point of �turning the Flower of Dharma,� in the
manner of our Founding Patriarch, the eternal buddha of Sokei. Now that
we have heard these [points] and now that we have met it, we have experi-
enced the meeting of eternal buddha with eternal buddha; how could [this]
not be the land of eternal buddhas? How joyful it is! From kalpa to kalpa is
the Flower of Dharma, and from noon to night is the Flower of Dharma.
Because the Flower of Dharma is from kalpa to kalpa, and because the Flower
of Dharma is from noon to night, even though our own body and mind grows
strong and grows weak, it is just the Flower of Dharma itself. The reality
that exists �as it is� is �a treasure,�186 is �brightness,�187 is �a seat of truth,�188
is �wide, great, profound, and eternal,�189 is �profound, great, and everlast-
ing,�190 is �mind in delusion, the Flower of Dharma turning,� and is �mind
in realization, turning the Flower of Dharma,� which is really just the Flower
of Dharma turning the Flower of Dharma.
[72] When the mind is in the state of delusion, the Flower of Dharma
turns.
When the mind is in the state of realization, we turn the Flower of
Dharma.
If perfect realization can be like this,
The Flower of Dharma turns the Flower of Dharma.
When we �serve offerings to it, venerate, honor, and praise it�191 like
this, the Flower of Dharma is the Flower of Dharma.
Shobogenzo Hokke-ten-hokke
On a day of the summer retreat in the second year of Ninji192 I have written
this and presented it to Zen person Etatsu. I am profoundly glad that he is
going to leave home to practice the truth. Just to shave the head is a lovely
fact in itself. To shave the head and to shave the head again: this is to be a
true child of transcending family life. 193 Leaving home today is the �effects
and results as they are� of the �energy as it is,� which has turned the Flower
of Dharma hitherto. The Flower of Dharma today will inevitably bear the
Flower of Dharma's Flower of Dharma fruits. It is not Sakyamuni's Flower
of Dharma and it is not the buddhas' Flower of Dharma; it is the Flower of
Dharma of the Flower of Dharma. Though �form� is �as it is,� our habitual
turning of the Flower of Dharma has been suspended in the state of �neither
sensing nor recognizing. � But the Flower of Dharma now is manifesting
itself afresh in the state �beyond knowing and beyond understanding. � The
past was exhalation and inhalation, and the present is exhalation and inhala-
tion. This we should maintain and rely upon, as the Flower of Dharma that
is �too fine to think about. �194
Written by the founder of Kannondoriko sho-
horinji, a srama? a who entered Song [China]
and received the transmission of Dharma,
Dogen (his written seal).
The copying was completed at Hogyoji at
the beginning of spring195 in the third year
of Kagen. 196
---
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A Biography of Sakyamuni
The Lotus Sutra (Second Revised Edition)
The Sutra of Queen Srimala of the Lion's Roar
The Larger Sutra on Amitayus
The Sutra on Contemplation of Amitayus
The Smaller Sutra on Amitayus
The Bequeathed Teaching Sutra
The Vimalakirti Sutra
The Ullambana Sutra
The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment
The Vairocanabhisa? bodhi Sutra
The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch
The Baizhang Zen Monastic Regulations
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 2
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 3
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 4
Tannisho: Passages Deploring Deviations of Faith
Rennyo Shonin Ofumi: The Letters of Rennyo
The Sutra on the Profundity of Filial Love
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1 (? ? ? ? (1))
Chapter/Section: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 18
[Chapter Eighteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Former)
Translator's Note: Shin means �mind,� fu expresses negation, ka expresses
possibility, and toku means �to grasp. � Shin-fukatoku, or �mind cannot be
grasped,� is a quotation from the Diamond Sutra. On the basis of our com-
mon sense, we usually think that our mind can be grasped by our intellect,
and we are prone to think that our mind must exist somewhere substantially.
This belief also extends into the sphere of philosophy; Ren� Descartes, for
example, started his philosophical thinking with the premise �Cogito ergo
sum� or �I think therefore I am. � The German idealists, for example, Kant,
Fichte, von Schelling, and Hegel, also based their philosophies on the exis-
tence of mind. But in Buddhism we do not have confidence in the existence
of mind. Buddhism is a philosophy of action, or a philosophy of the here and
now; in that philosophy, mind cannot exist independently of the external
world. In other words, Buddhism says that all existence is the instantaneous
contact between mind and the external world. Therefore it is difficult for us
to grasp our mind independently of the external world. In short, Buddhist
theory cannot support belief in the independent existence of mind. In this
chapter, Master Dogen preached that mind cannot be grasped, explaining a
famous Buddhist story about a conversation between Master Tokusan Senkan
and an old woman selling rice cakes.
[75] Sakyamuni Buddha says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present mind
cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �1
This is what the Buddhist Patriarch has mastered in practice. Inside can-
not be grasped, it has scooped out and brought here the caves2 of the past,
present, and future. At the same time it has utilized the cave of [the Buddhist
Patriarch] himself, and the meaning of �self� here is �mind cannot be grasped. �
The present thinking and discrimination is �mind cannot be grasped. � The
whole body utilizing the twelve hours is just �mind cannot be grasped. �
[76] After entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch, we understand
�mind cannot be grasped. � Before entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch,
we are without questions about, we are without assertions about, and we do
not see and hear �mind cannot be grasped. � Teachers of sutras and teachers
of commentaries, sravakas and pratyekabuddhas, have never seen it even
in a dream. Evidence of this is close at hand: Zen Master Tokusan Senkan,3
in former days, boasts that he has elucidated the Diamond Praj�a Sutra. 4
Sometimes he calls himself �Shu, King of the Diamond Sutra. �5 He is reputed
to be especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries,6 besides which he
[himself] has edited texts weighing twelve tan. 7 It appears that there is no
other lecturer to match him. [In fact,] however, he is the last in a line of lit-
erary Dharma teachers. Once, he hears that there is a supreme Buddha-
Dharma, received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and angered
beyond endurance he crosses mountains and rivers, carrying his sutras and
commentaries with him, until he comes upon the order of Zen Master Shin
of Ryutan. 8 On the way to that order, which he intends to join, he stops for
a rest. Then an old woman comes along, and she [also] stops for a rest by
the side of the road.
Then Lecturer [Sen]kan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �Why does the master wish to buy rice cakes? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy rice cakes to refresh my mind. �9
The old woman says, �What is that great load the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am now carrying is commentaries on the Diamond
Sutra. �
Hearing this insistence, the old woman says, �The old woman has a
question. Will the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I give you permission at once. You may ask whatever
you like. �
The old woman says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that
past mind cannot be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future
mind cannot be grasped. Which mind do you now intend somehow to refresh
with rice cakes? If the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice
cakes. If the master is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
Tokusan is dumbfounded at this: he does not know how he might politely
reply. The old woman just swings her sleeves10 and leaves. In the end, she
does not sell her rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it is for a com-
mentator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on
merely receiving one question from a humble old woman, to be defeated at
once and not even to manage a polite reply. Such things are due to the great
difference between [someone] who has met a true teacher and succeeded a
true teacher and heard the right Dharma, and [someone] who has never heard
the right Dharma or met a true teacher. This is when Tokusan first says, �A
rice cake painted in a picture cannot kill hunger. � Now, so they say, he has
received the Dharma from Ryutan.
[81] When we carefully consider this story of the meeting between the
old woman and Tokusan, Tokusan's lack of clarity in the past is audible
[even] now. Even after meeting Ryutan he might still be frightened of the
old woman. He is just a late learner, not an eternal buddha who has tran-
scended enlightenment. The old woman on this occasion shuts Tokusan's
mouth, but it is still difficult to decide that she is really a true person. 11 The
reason is that when she hears the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she thinks
only that mind cannot be got, or that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as
she does. If Tokusan were a stout fellow, he might have the power to exam-
ine and defeat the old woman. If he had examined and defeated her already,
it would also be apparent whether the old woman is in fact a true person.
Tokusan has not yet become Tokusan, and so whether the old woman is a
true person also is not yet apparent.
[82] That the mountain monks of the great kingdom of Song today, with
their patched robes and wide sleeves,12 idly laugh at Tokusan's inability to
answer, and praise the old woman's inspired wit, might be very unreliable
and stupid. For there is no absence of reasons to doubt the old woman: At the
point when Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does the old woman not
say to Tokusan, �Now the master is unable to say something, [so] go ahead
and ask [this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master
instead. � If she spoke like this, and if what she said to Tokusan after receiv-
ing his question were right in expression, it would be apparent that the old
woman really was a true person. She has questions, but she is without any
assertion. No one since ancient times has ever been called a true person with-
out asserting even a single word. We can see from Tokusan's past [experi-
ence] that idle boasting is useless, from beginning to end. We can know from
the example of the old woman that someone who has never expressed any-
thing cannot be approved. Let us see if we can say something in Tokusan's
place. Just as the old woman is about to question him as she does, Tokusan
should tell her at once, �If you are like this, then do not sell me your rice
cakes! � If Tokusan speaks like this, he might be an inspired practitioner.
Tokusan might ask the old woman, �Present mind cannot be grasped, past
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. Which mind
do you now intend to refresh with rice cakes? � If he questions her like this,
the old woman should say at once to Tokusan, �The master knows only that
rice cakes cannot refresh the mind. You do not know that mind refreshes
rice cakes, and you do not know that mind refreshes mind. � If she says this,
Tokusan will surely hesitate. Just at that time, she should take three rice
cakes and hand them over to Tokusan. Just as Tokusan goes to take them,
the old woman should say, �Past mind cannot be grasped! Present mind can-
not be grasped! Future mind cannot be grasped! � Or if Tokusan does not
extend his hands to take them, she should take one of the rice cakes and strike
Tokusan with it, saying, �You spiritless corpse! Do not be so dumb! � When
she speaks like this if Tokusan has something to say [for himself], fine. If
he has nothing to say, the old woman should speak again for Tokusan. [But]
she only swings her sleeves and leaves. We cannot suppose that there is a
bee in her sleeve, either. Tokusan himself does not say, �I cannot say any-
thing. Please, old woman, speak for me. � So not only does he fail to say what
he should say, he also fails to ask what he should ask. It is pitiful that the
old woman and Tokusan, past mind and future mind, questions and asser-
tions, are solely in the state of �future mind cannot be grasped. � Generally,
even after this, Tokusan does not appear to have experienced any great enlight-
enment, but only the odd moment of violent behavior. 13 If he had studied
under Ryutan for a long time, the horns on his head might have touched
something and broken,14 and he might have met the moment in which the
pearl [under the black dragon's] chin15 is authentically transmitted. We see
merely that his paper candle was blown out,16 which is not enough for the
transmission of the torch. 17 This being so, monks who are learning in prac-
tice must always be diligent in practice. Those who have taken it easy are
not right. Those who were diligent in practice are Buddhist patriarchs. In
conclusion, �mind cannot be grasped� means cheerfully buying a painted
rice cake18 and munching it up in one mouthful.
Shobogenzo Shin-fukatoku
Preached to the assembly at Kannondoriko-
shohorinji, in the Uji district of Yoshu,19
during the summer retreat in the second year
of Ninji. 20
---
BDK English Tripitaka
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BDK English Tripitaka
A Biography of Sakyamuni
The Lotus Sutra (Second Revised Edition)
The Sutra of Queen Srimala of the Lion's Roar
The Larger Sutra on Amitayus
The Sutra on Contemplation of Amitayus
The Smaller Sutra on Amitayus
The Bequeathed Teaching Sutra
The Vimalakirti Sutra
The Ullambana Sutra
The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment
The Vairocanabhisa? bodhi Sutra
The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch
The Baizhang Zen Monastic Regulations
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 2
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 3
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 4
Tannisho: Passages Deploring Deviations of Faith
Rennyo Shonin Ofumi: The Letters of Rennyo
The Sutra on the Profundity of Filial Love
Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1 (? ? ? ? (1))
Chapter/Section: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 19
[Chapter Nineteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Latter)
Translator 's Note: The ninety-five�chapter edition of the Shobogenzo has
two chapters with the same title, Shin-fukatoku or Mind Cannot Be Grasped.
We usually discriminate between the two chapters with the words �the for-
mer,� and �the latter. � The contents of the two chapters are different, but
the meaning of the two chapters is almost the same. Furthermore, the end
of each chapter records the same date�the summer retreat in 1241. How-
ever, while the former chapter says �preached to the assembly,� this chap-
ter says �written. � So it may be that the former chapter was a shorthand
record of Master Dogen's preaching, and the latter was Master Dogen's draft
of his lecture. This is only a supposition, and scholars in future may be able
to find a more exact conclusion.
[89] �Mind cannot be grasped� is the buddhas; they have maintained it and
relied upon it as their own state of anuttara samyak sa? bodhi.
[90] The Diamond Sutra says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �
This is just the realized state of maintaining and relying upon �mind can-
not be grasped,� which is the buddhas themselves. They have maintained it
and relied upon it as �triple-world mind cannot be grasped� and as �all-dhar-
mas mind cannot be grasped. � The state of maintenance and reliance which
makes this clear is not experienced unless learned from buddhas and is not
authentically transmitted unless learned from patriarchs. To learn from bud-
dhas means to learn from the sixteen-foot body,1 and to learn from a single
stalk of grass. 2 To learn from the patriarchs means to learn from skin, ? esh,
bones, and marrow,3 and to learn from a face breaking into a smile. 4 The
import of this is that when we seek [the truth] under [a teacher who] has evi-
dently received the authentic transmission of the right Dharma-eye treasury,
who has received the legitimate one-to-one transmission of the state in which
the mind-seal of the buddhas and the patriarchs is directly accessible, then
without fail that [teacher's] bones and marrow, face and eyes, are transmit-
ted, and we receive body, hair, and skin. Those who do not learn the Buddha's
truth and who do not enter the room of a patriarch neither see nor hear nor
understand this. The method of asking about it is beyond them. They have
never realized the means to express it, even in a dream.
[92] Tokusan, in former days, when not a stout fellow, was an author-
ity on the Diamond Sutra. People of the time called him Shu, King of the
Diamond Sutra. Of more than eight hundred scholars, he is the king. Not
only is he especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries, he has also
edited texts weighing twelve tan. There is no lecturer who stands shoulder-
to-shoulder with him. In the story he hears that in the south a supreme truth
has been received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and so, car-
rying his texts, he travels across the mountains and rivers. He takes a rest by
the left of the road leading to Ryutan, and an old woman comes by.
Tokusan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �What does the master want to buy them for? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy some rice cakes to refresh my mind. �
The old woman says, �What is all that the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am carrying is commentaries on the Diamond Sutra. �
Hearing this, the old woman says, �The old woman has a question. Will
the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I permit it.
You may ask whatever you like. �
She says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that past mind can-
not be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be
grasped. Which mind do you now intend to refresh with my rice cakes? If
the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice cakes. If the master
is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
At this, Tokusan was dumbfounded; he could not find any appropriate
reply. The old woman just swung her sleeves and left. In the end, she did
not sell any rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it was that a commen-
tator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on receiv-
ing one mere question from a humble old woman, promptly fell into defeat.
Such things are due to the great difference between those who have received
a master's transmission and those who have not received a master's trans-
mission, between those who visit the room of a true teacher and those who
do not enter the room of a true teacher. Hearing the words �cannot be grasped,�
[some] have simply understood that to grasp is equally impossible both for
the former group and for the latter group. They totally lack the vigorous
path. 5 Again, there are people who think that we say we cannot grasp it
because we are endowed with it originally. Such [thinking] has by no means
hit the target. This was when Tokusan first knew that rice cakes painted in
a picture cannot kill hunger, and understood that for Buddhist training it is
always necessary to meet a true person. He also understood that a person
who has been uselessly caught up in only sutras and texts is not able to acquire
real power. Eventually he visited Ryutan and realized the way of master and
disciple, after which he did indeed become a true person. Today he is not
only a founding patriarch of the Unmon and Hogen [sects],6 [but also] a guid-
ing teacher in the human world and in the heavens above.
[95] When we consider this story, it is evident now that Tokusan in the
past was not enlightened. Even though the old woman has now shut Toku-
san's mouth, it is also hard to decide that she is really a true person. In brief,
it seems that hearing the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she considers
only that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as she does. If Tokusan were a
stout fellow, he might have the power of interpretation. If he were able to
interpret [the situation], it would also have become apparent whether the old
woman was a true person, but because this is a time when Tokusan was not
Tokusan, whether the old woman is a true person also is not known and not
evident. What is more, we are not without reasons to doubt the old woman
now. When Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does she not say to Toku-
san, �Now the master is unable to say something, so please go ahead and ask
[this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master instead. �
Then, after receiving Tokusan's question, if she had something to say to
Tokusan, the old woman might show some real ability. Someone who has
the state of effort common to the bones and marrow and the faces and eyes
of the ancients, and [common] to the brightness and the conspicuous form
of eternal buddhas, in such a situation has no trouble not only taking hold
but also letting go of Tokusan, the old woman, the ungraspable, the gras-
pable, rice cakes, and mind. The �buddha-mind� is just the three times. 7 Mind
and the three times are not separated by a thousandth or a hundredth, but
when they move apart and we discuss their separation, then the profound
distance [between them] has [already] gone beyond eighty-four thousand. 8
If [someone] says �What is past mind? � we should say to that person �It can-
not be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is present mind? � we should say
to that person �It cannot be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is future
mind? � we should say to that person �It cannot be grasped. � The point here
is not to say that there is mind, which we provisionally call ungraspable; we
are just saying for the present �It cannot be grasped. � We do not say that it
is impossible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � We do not
say that it is possible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � Fur-
ther, if [someone] says �What is the state of �past mind cannot be grasped'? �
we should say �Living and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says
�What is the state of �present mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Liv-
ing and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says �What is the state of
�future mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Living and dying, com-
ing and going. � In sum, there is buddha-mind as fences, walls, tiles, and peb-
bles, and all the buddhas of the three times experience this as �it cannot be
grasped. � There are only fences, walls, tiles, and pebbles, which are the
buddha-mind itself, and the buddhas experience this in the three times as �it
cannot be grasped. � Furthermore there is the state of �it cannot be grasped�
itself, existing as mountains, rivers, and the earth. There are [times when]
the state of �it cannot be grasped� as grass, trees, wind, and water, is just
mind. There are also [times when] �the mind to which we should give rise
while having no abode�9 is the state of �it cannot be grasped. � Still further,
mind in the state of �it cannot be grasped� which is preaching eighty thou-
sand Dharma gates through all the ages of all the buddhas of the ten direc-
tions, is like this.
[99] A further example: At the time of the National Master Daisho,10
Daini Sanzo11 arrived at the capital12 from the faraway Western Heavens,13
claiming to have attained the power to know others' minds. 14 In the story the
Tang emperor Shukuso15 orders the National Master to examine [Sanzo]. As
soon as Sanzo meets the National Master, he promptly prostrates himself
and stands to the [master's] right.
At length, the National Master asks, �Have you got the power to know
others' minds, or not? �
Sanzo says, �I would not be so bold [as to say]. �16
The National Master says, �Tell me where [this] old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you by the West River watching a boat race? �
The National Master, after a while, asks a second time, �Tell me where
the old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you on Tianjin Bridge17 watching [someone] play with a monkey? �
The National Master asks again, �Tell me where the old monk is now. �
Sanzo takes a while, but knows nothing and sees nothing. Then the
National Master scolds him, saying, �You ghost of a wild fox,18 where is
your power to know others' minds? �
Sanzo has no further answer. 19
[101] If we did not know of such an episode, that would be bad, and if
we were not informed about it, we might have doubts. Buddhist patriarchs
and scholars of the Tripi? aka20 can never be equal; they are as far apart as
heaven and earth. Buddhist patriarchs have clarified the Buddha-Dharma,
scholars of the Tripi? aka have never clarified it at all. With regard to [the
title] �scholar of the Tripi? aka,� indeed, there are cases of even secular peo-
ple being �a scholar of the Tripi? aka. � It represents, for example, the acqui-
sition of a place in literary culture. This being so, even if [Sanzo] has not
only understood all the languages of India and China but has also accom-
plished the power to know others' minds as well, he has never seen the body
and mind of the Buddhist truth, even in a dream. For this reason, in his audi-
ence with the National Master, who has experienced the state of the Buddhist
patriarchs, [Sanzo] is seen through at once. When we learn mind in Buddhism,
the myriad dharmas are mind itself,21 and the triple world is mind alone. 22
It may be that mind alone is just mind alone,23 and that concrete buddha is
mind here and now. 24 Whether it is self, or whether it is the external world,
we must not be mistaken about the mind of the Buddha's truth. It could never
idly ? ow down to the West River or wander over to Tianjin Bridge. If we
want to maintain and to rely upon the body and mind of the Buddha's truth,
we must learn the power which is the wisdom of the Buddha's truth. That is
to say, in the Buddha's truth the whole earth is mind, which does not change
through arising and vanishing, and the whole Dharma is mind. We should
also learn the whole of mind as the power of wisdom. Sanzo, not having seen
this already, is nothing but the ghost of a wild fox. So, even the first two times,
[Sanzo] never sees the mind of the National Master, and never penetrates25
the mind of the National Master at all. He is a wild fox cub idly playing with
no more than the West River, Tianjin Bridge, a boat race, and a monkey�
how could he hope to see the National Master? Again, the fact is evident that
[Sanzo] cannot see the place where the National Master is. He is asked three
times, �Tell me where the old monk is now,� but he does not listen to these
words. If he could listen, he might be able to investigate [further], [but] because
he does not listen, he blunders heedlessly onward. If Sanzo had learned the
Buddha-Dharma, he would listen to the words of the National Master, and
he might be able to see the body and mind of the National Master. Because
he does not learn the Buddha-Dharma in his everyday life, even though he
was born to meet a guiding teacher of the human world and the heavens above,
he has passed [the opportunity] in vain. It is pitiful and it is deplorable. In
general, how could a scholar of the Tripi? aka attain to the conduct of a Buddhist
patriarch and know the limits of the National Master? Needless to say, teach-
ers of commentaries from the Western Heavens, and Indian scholars of the
Tripi? aka, could never know the conduct of the National Master at all. Kings
of gods can know, and teachers of commentaries can know, what scholars of
the Tripi? aka know. How could what commentary-teachers and gods know
be beyond the wisdom of [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment; or beyond
[bodhisattvas at] the ten sacred stages and the three clever stages? Gods can-
not know, and [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment26 have never clar-
ified, the body and mind of the National Master. Discussion of body and mind
among Buddhists is like this. We should know it and believe it.
[105] The Dharma of our great teacher Sakyamuni is never akin to the
ghosts of wild foxes�the two vehicles, non-Buddhists, and the like. Still,
venerable patriarchs through the ages have each studied this story, and their
discussions have survived:
27A monk asks Joshu,28 �Why does Sanzo not see where the National
Master is the third time? � Joshu says, �He does not see because the National
Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils. �
Another monk asks Gensha,29 �If [the National Master] is already on
[Sanzo's] nostrils, why does [Sanzo] not see him? � Gensha says, �Simply
because of being enormously close. �
Kaie Tan30 says, �If the National Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils,
what difficulty could [Sanzo] have in seeing him? Above all, it has not been
recognized that the National Master is inside Sanzo's eyeballs. �
On another occasion, Gensha challenges31 Sanzo with these words: �You!
Say! Have you seen at all, even the first two times? � Setcho Ken32 says, �I
am defeated, I am defeated. �
On still another occasion, a monk asks Kyozan,33 �Why is it that the
third time, though Sanzo takes a while, he does not see where the National
Master is? � Kyozan says, �The first two times [the master's] mind is wan-
dering in external circumstances; then he enters the samadhi of receiving
and using the self,34 and so [Sanzo] does not see him. �
These five venerable patriarchs are all precise, but they have passed over
the National Master's conduct: by only discussing [Sanzo's] failure to know
the third time, they seem to permit that he knew the first two times. This is
the ancestors' oversight, and students of later ages should know it.
[108] Kosho's (Dogen)35 present doubts about the five venerable patri-
archs are twofold. First, they do not know the National Master's intention
in examining Sanzo. Second, they do not know the National Master's body
and mind.
[109] Now the reason I say that they do not know the National Master's
intention in examining Sanzo is as follows: First the National Master says,
�Tell me where the old monk is just now. � The intention expressed [here] is
to test whether or not Sanzo has ever known the Buddha-Dharma. At this
time, if Sanzo has heard the Buddha-Dharma, he would study according to
the Buddha-Dharma the question �Where is the old monk just now? � Stud-
ied according to the Buddha-Dharma, the National Master's �Where is the
old monk now� asks �Am I at this place? � �Am I at that place? � �Am I in
the supreme state of bodhi? � �Am I in the praj�aparamita? � �Am I sus-
pended in space? � �Am I standing on the earth? � �Am I in a thatched hut? �
and �Am I in the place of treasure? � Sanzo does not recognize this inten-
tion, and so he vainly offers views and opinions of the common person, the
two vehicles, and the like. The National Master asks again, �Tell me where
this old monk is just now. � Here again Sanzo offers useless words. The
National Master asks yet again, �Tell me where this old monk is just now,�
whereupon Sanzo takes a while but says nothing, his mind baf? ed. Then the
National Master scolds Sanzo, saying, �You ghost of a wild fox, where is
your power to know others' minds? � Thus chided, Sanzo still has nothing
to say [for himself]. Having considered this episode carefully, the ancestors
all think that the National Master is now scolding Sanzo because, even if
[Sanzo] knows where the National Master was the first two times, he does
not know the third time. That is not so. The National Master is scolding
Sanzo outright for being nothing but the ghost of a wild fox and never hav-
ing seen the Buddha-Dharma even in a dream. [The National Master] has
never said that [Sanzo] knew the first two times but not the third time. His
criticism is outright criticism of Sanzo. The National Master's idea is, first,
to consider whether or not it is possible to call the Buddha-Dharma �the
power to know others' minds. � Further, he thinks �If we speak of �the power
to know others' minds' we must take �others' in accordance with the Buddha's
truth, we must take �mind' in accordance with the Buddha's truth, and we
must take �the power to know' in accordance with the Buddha's truth, but
what this Sanzo is saying now does not accord with the Buddha's truth at
all. How could it be called the Buddha-Dharma? � These are the thoughts of
the National Master. The meaning of his testing is as follows: Even if [Sanzo]
says something the third time, if it is like the first two times�contrary to the
principles of the Buddha-Dharma and contrary to the fundamental intention
of the National Master�it must be criticized. When [the National Master]
asks three times, he is asking again and again whether Sanzo has been able
to understand the National Master's words.
[112] The second [doubt]�that [the five venerable patriarchs] do not
know the body and mind of the National Master�is namely that the body
and mind of the National Master cannot be known, and cannot be pene-
trated,36 by scholars of the Tripi? aka. It is beyond the attainment of [bodhi-
sattvas at] the ten sacred stages and the three clever stages, and it is beyond
clarification by [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment or [in] the state of
balanced awareness,37 so how could the common person Sanzo know it? We
must clearly determine [the truth of] this principle. If [people] purport that
even Sanzo might know, or might attain to, the body and mind of the National
Master, it is because they themselves do not know the body and mind of the
National Master. If we say that people who have got the power to know oth-
ers' minds can know the National Master, then can the two vehicles also know
the National Master? That is impossible: people of the two vehicles can never
arrive at the periphery of the National Master. Nowadays many people of the
two vehicles have read the sutras of the Great Vehicle, [but] even they can-
not know the body and mind of the National Master. Further, they cannot see
the body and mind of the Buddha-Dharma, even in a dream. Even if they
seem to read and recite the sutras of the Great Vehicle, we should clearly
know that they are totally people of the Small Vehicles. In sum, the body and
mind of the National Master cannot be known by people who are acquiring
mystical powers or getting practice and experience. It might be difficult even
for the National Master to fathom the body and mind of the National Master.
Why? [Because] his conduct has long been free of the aim of becoming buddha;
and so even the Buddha's eye could not glimpse it. His leaving-and-coming
has far transcended the nest and cannot be restrained by nets and cages.
[114] Now I would like to examine and defeat each of the five venera-
ble patriarchs. Joshu says that because the National Master is right on Sanzo's
nostrils, [Sanzo] does not see. What does this comment mean? Such mis-
takes happen when we discuss details without clarifying the substance. How
could the National Master be right on Sanzo's nostrils? Sanzo has no nos-
trils. Moreover, although it does appear that the means are present for the
National Master and Sanzo to look at each other, there is no way for them
to get close to each other. Clear eyes will surely affirm [that this is so].
38Gensha says, �Simply because of being enormously close. � Certainly,
his �enormously close� can be left as it is, [but] he misses the point. What
state does he describe as �enormously close�? What object does he take to
be �enormously close�? Gensha has not recognized �enormous closeness,�
and has not experienced �enormous closeness. � In regard to the Buddha-
Dharma he is the farthest of the far.
Kyozan says, �The first two times [the master's] mind is wandering in
external circumstances; then he enters the samadhi of receiving and using
the self, and so [Sanzo] does not see him. � Though [Kyozan's] acclaim as a
little Sakyamuni echoes on high [even] in the Western Heavens, he is not
without such wrongness. If he is saying that when [people] see each other
[they] are inevitably wandering in external circumstances, then there would
seem to be no instance of Buddhist patriarchs seeing each other, and he would
appear not to have studied the virtues of affirmation and becoming buddha.
If he is saying that Sanzo, the first two times, was really able to know the
place where the National Master was, I must say that [Kyozan] does not
know the virtue of a single bristle of the National Master's hair.
Gensha demands, �Have you seen at all, even the first two times? � This
one utterance �Have you seen at all? � seems to say what needs to be said, but
it is not right because it suggests that [Sanzo's] seeing is like not seeing. 39
Hearing the above, Zen Master Setcho Myokaku40 says, �I am defeated.
I am defeated. � When we see Gensha's words as the truth, we should speak
like that; when we do not see them as the truth, we should not speak like that.
Kaie Tan says, �If the National Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils, what
difficulty could [Sanzo] have in seeing him? Above all, it has not been rec-
ognized that the National Master is inside Sanzo's eyeballs. � This again dis-
cusses [only] the third time. It does not criticize [Sanzo] as he should be crit-
icized, for not seeing the first two times as well. How could [Kaie] know
that the National Master is on [Sanzo's] nostrils or inside [Sanzo's] eyeballs?
[117] Every one of the five venerable patriarchs is blind to the virtue of
the National Master; it is as if they have no power to discern the truth of the
Buddha-Dharma. Remember, the National Master is just a buddha through
all the ages. He has definitely received the authentic transmission of the
Buddha's right Dharma-eye treasury. Scholars of the Tripi? aka, teachers of
commentaries, and others of the Small Vehicles, do not know the limits of
the National Master at all; and the proof of that is here. �The power to know
others' minds,� as it is discussed in the Small Vehicles, should be called �the
power to know others' ideas.
stupa,� �before the Buddha,� �the treasure stupa,� and �space� are not of
Vulture Peak; they are not of the world of Dharma; they are not a halfway
stage; and they are not of the whole world. Nor are they concerned with only
a �concrete place in the Dharma. �172 They are simply �different from think-
ing. �173 There is turning the Flower of Dharma either in �manifesting the
body of Buddha and preaching the Dharma for others�174 or in manifesting
this body and preaching the Dharma for others. Or turning the Flower of
Dharma is the manifestation of Devadatta. 175 Or there is turning the Flower
of Dharma in the manifestation of �to retreat also is fine. �176 Do not always
measure �the waiting, with palms held together and [faces] looking up,�177
as �sixty minor kalpas. �178 Even if the length of �wholehearted waiting�179
is condensed into just a few countless kalpas, still it will be impossible to
fathom the �buddha-wisdom. �180 As how much buddha-wisdom should we
see a wholehearted mind that is waiting? Do not see this turning the Flower
of Dharma only as �the bodhisattva way practiced in the past. �181 Wherever
the Flower of Dharma is a total order the virtue is that of turning the Flower
of Dharma, [and it is expressed] as, �The Tathagata preaches the Great Vehi-
cle today. �182 [When] the Flower of Dharma just now is the Flower of Dharma,
it is �neither sensed nor recognized,�183 and at the same time it is �beyond
knowing� and �beyond understanding. �184 This being so, �five hundred
[ink]drop [kalpas]�185 are a brief thousandth [of an instant] of turning the
Flower of Dharma; they are the Buddha's lifetime being proclaimed by each
moment of red mind.
[70] In conclusion, in the hundreds of years since this sutra was trans-
mitted into China, to be turned as the Flower of Dharma, very many people,
here and there, have produced their commentaries and interpretations. Some,
moreover, have attained the Dharma state of an eminent person by relying
on this sutra. But no one has grasped the point of �the Flower of Dharma
turning,� or mastered the point of �turning the Flower of Dharma,� in the
manner of our Founding Patriarch, the eternal buddha of Sokei. Now that
we have heard these [points] and now that we have met it, we have experi-
enced the meeting of eternal buddha with eternal buddha; how could [this]
not be the land of eternal buddhas? How joyful it is! From kalpa to kalpa is
the Flower of Dharma, and from noon to night is the Flower of Dharma.
Because the Flower of Dharma is from kalpa to kalpa, and because the Flower
of Dharma is from noon to night, even though our own body and mind grows
strong and grows weak, it is just the Flower of Dharma itself. The reality
that exists �as it is� is �a treasure,�186 is �brightness,�187 is �a seat of truth,�188
is �wide, great, profound, and eternal,�189 is �profound, great, and everlast-
ing,�190 is �mind in delusion, the Flower of Dharma turning,� and is �mind
in realization, turning the Flower of Dharma,� which is really just the Flower
of Dharma turning the Flower of Dharma.
[72] When the mind is in the state of delusion, the Flower of Dharma
turns.
When the mind is in the state of realization, we turn the Flower of
Dharma.
If perfect realization can be like this,
The Flower of Dharma turns the Flower of Dharma.
When we �serve offerings to it, venerate, honor, and praise it�191 like
this, the Flower of Dharma is the Flower of Dharma.
Shobogenzo Hokke-ten-hokke
On a day of the summer retreat in the second year of Ninji192 I have written
this and presented it to Zen person Etatsu. I am profoundly glad that he is
going to leave home to practice the truth. Just to shave the head is a lovely
fact in itself. To shave the head and to shave the head again: this is to be a
true child of transcending family life. 193 Leaving home today is the �effects
and results as they are� of the �energy as it is,� which has turned the Flower
of Dharma hitherto. The Flower of Dharma today will inevitably bear the
Flower of Dharma's Flower of Dharma fruits. It is not Sakyamuni's Flower
of Dharma and it is not the buddhas' Flower of Dharma; it is the Flower of
Dharma of the Flower of Dharma. Though �form� is �as it is,� our habitual
turning of the Flower of Dharma has been suspended in the state of �neither
sensing nor recognizing. � But the Flower of Dharma now is manifesting
itself afresh in the state �beyond knowing and beyond understanding. � The
past was exhalation and inhalation, and the present is exhalation and inhala-
tion. This we should maintain and rely upon, as the Flower of Dharma that
is �too fine to think about. �194
Written by the founder of Kannondoriko sho-
horinji, a srama? a who entered Song [China]
and received the transmission of Dharma,
Dogen (his written seal).
The copying was completed at Hogyoji at
the beginning of spring195 in the third year
of Kagen. 196
---
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The Lotus Sutra (Second Revised Edition)
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Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
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B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 18
[Chapter Eighteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Former)
Translator's Note: Shin means �mind,� fu expresses negation, ka expresses
possibility, and toku means �to grasp. � Shin-fukatoku, or �mind cannot be
grasped,� is a quotation from the Diamond Sutra. On the basis of our com-
mon sense, we usually think that our mind can be grasped by our intellect,
and we are prone to think that our mind must exist somewhere substantially.
This belief also extends into the sphere of philosophy; Ren� Descartes, for
example, started his philosophical thinking with the premise �Cogito ergo
sum� or �I think therefore I am. � The German idealists, for example, Kant,
Fichte, von Schelling, and Hegel, also based their philosophies on the exis-
tence of mind. But in Buddhism we do not have confidence in the existence
of mind. Buddhism is a philosophy of action, or a philosophy of the here and
now; in that philosophy, mind cannot exist independently of the external
world. In other words, Buddhism says that all existence is the instantaneous
contact between mind and the external world. Therefore it is difficult for us
to grasp our mind independently of the external world. In short, Buddhist
theory cannot support belief in the independent existence of mind. In this
chapter, Master Dogen preached that mind cannot be grasped, explaining a
famous Buddhist story about a conversation between Master Tokusan Senkan
and an old woman selling rice cakes.
[75] Sakyamuni Buddha says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present mind
cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �1
This is what the Buddhist Patriarch has mastered in practice. Inside can-
not be grasped, it has scooped out and brought here the caves2 of the past,
present, and future. At the same time it has utilized the cave of [the Buddhist
Patriarch] himself, and the meaning of �self� here is �mind cannot be grasped. �
The present thinking and discrimination is �mind cannot be grasped. � The
whole body utilizing the twelve hours is just �mind cannot be grasped. �
[76] After entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch, we understand
�mind cannot be grasped. � Before entering the room of a Buddhist patriarch,
we are without questions about, we are without assertions about, and we do
not see and hear �mind cannot be grasped. � Teachers of sutras and teachers
of commentaries, sravakas and pratyekabuddhas, have never seen it even
in a dream. Evidence of this is close at hand: Zen Master Tokusan Senkan,3
in former days, boasts that he has elucidated the Diamond Praj�a Sutra. 4
Sometimes he calls himself �Shu, King of the Diamond Sutra. �5 He is reputed
to be especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries,6 besides which he
[himself] has edited texts weighing twelve tan. 7 It appears that there is no
other lecturer to match him. [In fact,] however, he is the last in a line of lit-
erary Dharma teachers. Once, he hears that there is a supreme Buddha-
Dharma, received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and angered
beyond endurance he crosses mountains and rivers, carrying his sutras and
commentaries with him, until he comes upon the order of Zen Master Shin
of Ryutan. 8 On the way to that order, which he intends to join, he stops for
a rest. Then an old woman comes along, and she [also] stops for a rest by
the side of the road.
Then Lecturer [Sen]kan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �Why does the master wish to buy rice cakes? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy rice cakes to refresh my mind. �9
The old woman says, �What is that great load the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am now carrying is commentaries on the Diamond
Sutra. �
Hearing this insistence, the old woman says, �The old woman has a
question. Will the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I give you permission at once. You may ask whatever
you like. �
The old woman says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that
past mind cannot be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future
mind cannot be grasped. Which mind do you now intend somehow to refresh
with rice cakes? If the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice
cakes. If the master is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
Tokusan is dumbfounded at this: he does not know how he might politely
reply. The old woman just swings her sleeves10 and leaves. In the end, she
does not sell her rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it is for a com-
mentator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on
merely receiving one question from a humble old woman, to be defeated at
once and not even to manage a polite reply. Such things are due to the great
difference between [someone] who has met a true teacher and succeeded a
true teacher and heard the right Dharma, and [someone] who has never heard
the right Dharma or met a true teacher. This is when Tokusan first says, �A
rice cake painted in a picture cannot kill hunger. � Now, so they say, he has
received the Dharma from Ryutan.
[81] When we carefully consider this story of the meeting between the
old woman and Tokusan, Tokusan's lack of clarity in the past is audible
[even] now. Even after meeting Ryutan he might still be frightened of the
old woman. He is just a late learner, not an eternal buddha who has tran-
scended enlightenment. The old woman on this occasion shuts Tokusan's
mouth, but it is still difficult to decide that she is really a true person. 11 The
reason is that when she hears the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she thinks
only that mind cannot be got, or that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as
she does. If Tokusan were a stout fellow, he might have the power to exam-
ine and defeat the old woman. If he had examined and defeated her already,
it would also be apparent whether the old woman is in fact a true person.
Tokusan has not yet become Tokusan, and so whether the old woman is a
true person also is not yet apparent.
[82] That the mountain monks of the great kingdom of Song today, with
their patched robes and wide sleeves,12 idly laugh at Tokusan's inability to
answer, and praise the old woman's inspired wit, might be very unreliable
and stupid. For there is no absence of reasons to doubt the old woman: At the
point when Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does the old woman not
say to Tokusan, �Now the master is unable to say something, [so] go ahead
and ask [this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master
instead. � If she spoke like this, and if what she said to Tokusan after receiv-
ing his question were right in expression, it would be apparent that the old
woman really was a true person. She has questions, but she is without any
assertion. No one since ancient times has ever been called a true person with-
out asserting even a single word. We can see from Tokusan's past [experi-
ence] that idle boasting is useless, from beginning to end. We can know from
the example of the old woman that someone who has never expressed any-
thing cannot be approved. Let us see if we can say something in Tokusan's
place. Just as the old woman is about to question him as she does, Tokusan
should tell her at once, �If you are like this, then do not sell me your rice
cakes! � If Tokusan speaks like this, he might be an inspired practitioner.
Tokusan might ask the old woman, �Present mind cannot be grasped, past
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. Which mind
do you now intend to refresh with rice cakes? � If he questions her like this,
the old woman should say at once to Tokusan, �The master knows only that
rice cakes cannot refresh the mind. You do not know that mind refreshes
rice cakes, and you do not know that mind refreshes mind. � If she says this,
Tokusan will surely hesitate. Just at that time, she should take three rice
cakes and hand them over to Tokusan. Just as Tokusan goes to take them,
the old woman should say, �Past mind cannot be grasped! Present mind can-
not be grasped! Future mind cannot be grasped! � Or if Tokusan does not
extend his hands to take them, she should take one of the rice cakes and strike
Tokusan with it, saying, �You spiritless corpse! Do not be so dumb! � When
she speaks like this if Tokusan has something to say [for himself], fine. If
he has nothing to say, the old woman should speak again for Tokusan. [But]
she only swings her sleeves and leaves. We cannot suppose that there is a
bee in her sleeve, either. Tokusan himself does not say, �I cannot say any-
thing. Please, old woman, speak for me. � So not only does he fail to say what
he should say, he also fails to ask what he should ask. It is pitiful that the
old woman and Tokusan, past mind and future mind, questions and asser-
tions, are solely in the state of �future mind cannot be grasped. � Generally,
even after this, Tokusan does not appear to have experienced any great enlight-
enment, but only the odd moment of violent behavior. 13 If he had studied
under Ryutan for a long time, the horns on his head might have touched
something and broken,14 and he might have met the moment in which the
pearl [under the black dragon's] chin15 is authentically transmitted. We see
merely that his paper candle was blown out,16 which is not enough for the
transmission of the torch. 17 This being so, monks who are learning in prac-
tice must always be diligent in practice. Those who have taken it easy are
not right. Those who were diligent in practice are Buddhist patriarchs. In
conclusion, �mind cannot be grasped� means cheerfully buying a painted
rice cake18 and munching it up in one mouthful.
Shobogenzo Shin-fukatoku
Preached to the assembly at Kannondoriko-
shohorinji, in the Uji district of Yoshu,19
during the summer retreat in the second year
of Ninji. 20
---
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Shobogenzo: The True Dharma-Eye Treasury vol. 1
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B2582_1 (biblio info) Chapter/Section 19
[Chapter Nineteen]
Shin-fukatoku
Mind Cannot Be Grasped
(The Latter)
Translator 's Note: The ninety-five�chapter edition of the Shobogenzo has
two chapters with the same title, Shin-fukatoku or Mind Cannot Be Grasped.
We usually discriminate between the two chapters with the words �the for-
mer,� and �the latter. � The contents of the two chapters are different, but
the meaning of the two chapters is almost the same. Furthermore, the end
of each chapter records the same date�the summer retreat in 1241. How-
ever, while the former chapter says �preached to the assembly,� this chap-
ter says �written. � So it may be that the former chapter was a shorthand
record of Master Dogen's preaching, and the latter was Master Dogen's draft
of his lecture. This is only a supposition, and scholars in future may be able
to find a more exact conclusion.
[89] �Mind cannot be grasped� is the buddhas; they have maintained it and
relied upon it as their own state of anuttara samyak sa? bodhi.
[90] The Diamond Sutra says, �Past mind cannot be grasped, present
mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be grasped. �
This is just the realized state of maintaining and relying upon �mind can-
not be grasped,� which is the buddhas themselves. They have maintained it
and relied upon it as �triple-world mind cannot be grasped� and as �all-dhar-
mas mind cannot be grasped. � The state of maintenance and reliance which
makes this clear is not experienced unless learned from buddhas and is not
authentically transmitted unless learned from patriarchs. To learn from bud-
dhas means to learn from the sixteen-foot body,1 and to learn from a single
stalk of grass. 2 To learn from the patriarchs means to learn from skin, ? esh,
bones, and marrow,3 and to learn from a face breaking into a smile. 4 The
import of this is that when we seek [the truth] under [a teacher who] has evi-
dently received the authentic transmission of the right Dharma-eye treasury,
who has received the legitimate one-to-one transmission of the state in which
the mind-seal of the buddhas and the patriarchs is directly accessible, then
without fail that [teacher's] bones and marrow, face and eyes, are transmit-
ted, and we receive body, hair, and skin. Those who do not learn the Buddha's
truth and who do not enter the room of a patriarch neither see nor hear nor
understand this. The method of asking about it is beyond them. They have
never realized the means to express it, even in a dream.
[92] Tokusan, in former days, when not a stout fellow, was an author-
ity on the Diamond Sutra. People of the time called him Shu, King of the
Diamond Sutra. Of more than eight hundred scholars, he is the king. Not
only is he especially well versed in the Seiryu Commentaries, he has also
edited texts weighing twelve tan. There is no lecturer who stands shoulder-
to-shoulder with him. In the story he hears that in the south a supreme truth
has been received by rightful successor from rightful successor, and so, car-
rying his texts, he travels across the mountains and rivers. He takes a rest by
the left of the road leading to Ryutan, and an old woman comes by.
Tokusan asks, �What kind of person are you? �
The old woman says , �I am an old woman who sells rice cakes . �
Tokusan says, �Will you sell some rice cakes to me? �
The old woman says, �What does the master want to buy them for? �
Tokusan says, �I would like to buy some rice cakes to refresh my mind. �
The old woman says, �What is all that the master is carrying? �
Tokusan says, �Have you not heard? I am Shu, King of the Diamond
Sutra. I have mastered the Diamond Sutra. There is no part of it that I do not
understand. This [load] I am carrying is commentaries on the Diamond Sutra. �
Hearing this, the old woman says, �The old woman has a question. Will
the master permit me [to ask] it, or not? �
Tokusan says, �I permit it.
You may ask whatever you like. �
She says, �I have heard it said in the Diamond Sutra that past mind can-
not be grasped, present mind cannot be grasped, and future mind cannot be
grasped. Which mind do you now intend to refresh with my rice cakes? If
the master is able to say something, I will sell the rice cakes. If the master
is unable to say anything, I will not sell the rice cakes. �
At this, Tokusan was dumbfounded; he could not find any appropriate
reply. The old woman just swung her sleeves and left. In the end, she did
not sell any rice cakes to Tokusan. How regrettable it was that a commen-
tator on hundreds of scrolls [of text], a lecturer for tens of years, on receiv-
ing one mere question from a humble old woman, promptly fell into defeat.
Such things are due to the great difference between those who have received
a master's transmission and those who have not received a master's trans-
mission, between those who visit the room of a true teacher and those who
do not enter the room of a true teacher. Hearing the words �cannot be grasped,�
[some] have simply understood that to grasp is equally impossible both for
the former group and for the latter group. They totally lack the vigorous
path. 5 Again, there are people who think that we say we cannot grasp it
because we are endowed with it originally. Such [thinking] has by no means
hit the target. This was when Tokusan first knew that rice cakes painted in
a picture cannot kill hunger, and understood that for Buddhist training it is
always necessary to meet a true person. He also understood that a person
who has been uselessly caught up in only sutras and texts is not able to acquire
real power. Eventually he visited Ryutan and realized the way of master and
disciple, after which he did indeed become a true person. Today he is not
only a founding patriarch of the Unmon and Hogen [sects],6 [but also] a guid-
ing teacher in the human world and in the heavens above.
[95] When we consider this story, it is evident now that Tokusan in the
past was not enlightened. Even though the old woman has now shut Toku-
san's mouth, it is also hard to decide that she is really a true person. In brief,
it seems that hearing the words �mind cannot be grasped,� she considers
only that mind cannot exist, and so she asks as she does. If Tokusan were a
stout fellow, he might have the power of interpretation. If he were able to
interpret [the situation], it would also have become apparent whether the old
woman was a true person, but because this is a time when Tokusan was not
Tokusan, whether the old woman is a true person also is not known and not
evident. What is more, we are not without reasons to doubt the old woman
now. When Tokusan is unable to say anything, why does she not say to Toku-
san, �Now the master is unable to say something, so please go ahead and ask
[this] old woman. The old woman will say something for the master instead. �
Then, after receiving Tokusan's question, if she had something to say to
Tokusan, the old woman might show some real ability. Someone who has
the state of effort common to the bones and marrow and the faces and eyes
of the ancients, and [common] to the brightness and the conspicuous form
of eternal buddhas, in such a situation has no trouble not only taking hold
but also letting go of Tokusan, the old woman, the ungraspable, the gras-
pable, rice cakes, and mind. The �buddha-mind� is just the three times. 7 Mind
and the three times are not separated by a thousandth or a hundredth, but
when they move apart and we discuss their separation, then the profound
distance [between them] has [already] gone beyond eighty-four thousand. 8
If [someone] says �What is past mind? � we should say to that person �It can-
not be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is present mind? � we should say
to that person �It cannot be grasped. � If [someone] says �What is future
mind? � we should say to that person �It cannot be grasped. � The point here
is not to say that there is mind, which we provisionally call ungraspable; we
are just saying for the present �It cannot be grasped. � We do not say that it
is impossible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � We do not
say that it is possible to grasp mind; we only say �It cannot be grasped. � Fur-
ther, if [someone] says �What is the state of �past mind cannot be grasped'? �
we should say �Living and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says
�What is the state of �present mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Liv-
ing and dying, coming and going. � If [someone] says �What is the state of
�future mind cannot be grasped'? � we should say �Living and dying, com-
ing and going. � In sum, there is buddha-mind as fences, walls, tiles, and peb-
bles, and all the buddhas of the three times experience this as �it cannot be
grasped. � There are only fences, walls, tiles, and pebbles, which are the
buddha-mind itself, and the buddhas experience this in the three times as �it
cannot be grasped. � Furthermore there is the state of �it cannot be grasped�
itself, existing as mountains, rivers, and the earth. There are [times when]
the state of �it cannot be grasped� as grass, trees, wind, and water, is just
mind. There are also [times when] �the mind to which we should give rise
while having no abode�9 is the state of �it cannot be grasped. � Still further,
mind in the state of �it cannot be grasped� which is preaching eighty thou-
sand Dharma gates through all the ages of all the buddhas of the ten direc-
tions, is like this.
[99] A further example: At the time of the National Master Daisho,10
Daini Sanzo11 arrived at the capital12 from the faraway Western Heavens,13
claiming to have attained the power to know others' minds. 14 In the story the
Tang emperor Shukuso15 orders the National Master to examine [Sanzo]. As
soon as Sanzo meets the National Master, he promptly prostrates himself
and stands to the [master's] right.
At length, the National Master asks, �Have you got the power to know
others' minds, or not? �
Sanzo says, �I would not be so bold [as to say]. �16
The National Master says, �Tell me where [this] old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you by the West River watching a boat race? �
The National Master, after a while, asks a second time, �Tell me where
the old monk is now. �
Sanzo says, �Master, you are the teacher of the whole country. Why are
you on Tianjin Bridge17 watching [someone] play with a monkey? �
The National Master asks again, �Tell me where the old monk is now. �
Sanzo takes a while, but knows nothing and sees nothing. Then the
National Master scolds him, saying, �You ghost of a wild fox,18 where is
your power to know others' minds? �
Sanzo has no further answer. 19
[101] If we did not know of such an episode, that would be bad, and if
we were not informed about it, we might have doubts. Buddhist patriarchs
and scholars of the Tripi? aka20 can never be equal; they are as far apart as
heaven and earth. Buddhist patriarchs have clarified the Buddha-Dharma,
scholars of the Tripi? aka have never clarified it at all. With regard to [the
title] �scholar of the Tripi? aka,� indeed, there are cases of even secular peo-
ple being �a scholar of the Tripi? aka. � It represents, for example, the acqui-
sition of a place in literary culture. This being so, even if [Sanzo] has not
only understood all the languages of India and China but has also accom-
plished the power to know others' minds as well, he has never seen the body
and mind of the Buddhist truth, even in a dream. For this reason, in his audi-
ence with the National Master, who has experienced the state of the Buddhist
patriarchs, [Sanzo] is seen through at once. When we learn mind in Buddhism,
the myriad dharmas are mind itself,21 and the triple world is mind alone. 22
It may be that mind alone is just mind alone,23 and that concrete buddha is
mind here and now. 24 Whether it is self, or whether it is the external world,
we must not be mistaken about the mind of the Buddha's truth. It could never
idly ? ow down to the West River or wander over to Tianjin Bridge. If we
want to maintain and to rely upon the body and mind of the Buddha's truth,
we must learn the power which is the wisdom of the Buddha's truth. That is
to say, in the Buddha's truth the whole earth is mind, which does not change
through arising and vanishing, and the whole Dharma is mind. We should
also learn the whole of mind as the power of wisdom. Sanzo, not having seen
this already, is nothing but the ghost of a wild fox. So, even the first two times,
[Sanzo] never sees the mind of the National Master, and never penetrates25
the mind of the National Master at all. He is a wild fox cub idly playing with
no more than the West River, Tianjin Bridge, a boat race, and a monkey�
how could he hope to see the National Master? Again, the fact is evident that
[Sanzo] cannot see the place where the National Master is. He is asked three
times, �Tell me where the old monk is now,� but he does not listen to these
words. If he could listen, he might be able to investigate [further], [but] because
he does not listen, he blunders heedlessly onward. If Sanzo had learned the
Buddha-Dharma, he would listen to the words of the National Master, and
he might be able to see the body and mind of the National Master. Because
he does not learn the Buddha-Dharma in his everyday life, even though he
was born to meet a guiding teacher of the human world and the heavens above,
he has passed [the opportunity] in vain. It is pitiful and it is deplorable. In
general, how could a scholar of the Tripi? aka attain to the conduct of a Buddhist
patriarch and know the limits of the National Master? Needless to say, teach-
ers of commentaries from the Western Heavens, and Indian scholars of the
Tripi? aka, could never know the conduct of the National Master at all. Kings
of gods can know, and teachers of commentaries can know, what scholars of
the Tripi? aka know. How could what commentary-teachers and gods know
be beyond the wisdom of [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment; or beyond
[bodhisattvas at] the ten sacred stages and the three clever stages? Gods can-
not know, and [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment26 have never clar-
ified, the body and mind of the National Master. Discussion of body and mind
among Buddhists is like this. We should know it and believe it.
[105] The Dharma of our great teacher Sakyamuni is never akin to the
ghosts of wild foxes�the two vehicles, non-Buddhists, and the like. Still,
venerable patriarchs through the ages have each studied this story, and their
discussions have survived:
27A monk asks Joshu,28 �Why does Sanzo not see where the National
Master is the third time? � Joshu says, �He does not see because the National
Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils. �
Another monk asks Gensha,29 �If [the National Master] is already on
[Sanzo's] nostrils, why does [Sanzo] not see him? � Gensha says, �Simply
because of being enormously close. �
Kaie Tan30 says, �If the National Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils,
what difficulty could [Sanzo] have in seeing him? Above all, it has not been
recognized that the National Master is inside Sanzo's eyeballs. �
On another occasion, Gensha challenges31 Sanzo with these words: �You!
Say! Have you seen at all, even the first two times? � Setcho Ken32 says, �I
am defeated, I am defeated. �
On still another occasion, a monk asks Kyozan,33 �Why is it that the
third time, though Sanzo takes a while, he does not see where the National
Master is? � Kyozan says, �The first two times [the master's] mind is wan-
dering in external circumstances; then he enters the samadhi of receiving
and using the self,34 and so [Sanzo] does not see him. �
These five venerable patriarchs are all precise, but they have passed over
the National Master's conduct: by only discussing [Sanzo's] failure to know
the third time, they seem to permit that he knew the first two times. This is
the ancestors' oversight, and students of later ages should know it.
[108] Kosho's (Dogen)35 present doubts about the five venerable patri-
archs are twofold. First, they do not know the National Master's intention
in examining Sanzo. Second, they do not know the National Master's body
and mind.
[109] Now the reason I say that they do not know the National Master's
intention in examining Sanzo is as follows: First the National Master says,
�Tell me where the old monk is just now. � The intention expressed [here] is
to test whether or not Sanzo has ever known the Buddha-Dharma. At this
time, if Sanzo has heard the Buddha-Dharma, he would study according to
the Buddha-Dharma the question �Where is the old monk just now? � Stud-
ied according to the Buddha-Dharma, the National Master's �Where is the
old monk now� asks �Am I at this place? � �Am I at that place? � �Am I in
the supreme state of bodhi? � �Am I in the praj�aparamita? � �Am I sus-
pended in space? � �Am I standing on the earth? � �Am I in a thatched hut? �
and �Am I in the place of treasure? � Sanzo does not recognize this inten-
tion, and so he vainly offers views and opinions of the common person, the
two vehicles, and the like. The National Master asks again, �Tell me where
this old monk is just now. � Here again Sanzo offers useless words. The
National Master asks yet again, �Tell me where this old monk is just now,�
whereupon Sanzo takes a while but says nothing, his mind baf? ed. Then the
National Master scolds Sanzo, saying, �You ghost of a wild fox, where is
your power to know others' minds? � Thus chided, Sanzo still has nothing
to say [for himself]. Having considered this episode carefully, the ancestors
all think that the National Master is now scolding Sanzo because, even if
[Sanzo] knows where the National Master was the first two times, he does
not know the third time. That is not so. The National Master is scolding
Sanzo outright for being nothing but the ghost of a wild fox and never hav-
ing seen the Buddha-Dharma even in a dream. [The National Master] has
never said that [Sanzo] knew the first two times but not the third time. His
criticism is outright criticism of Sanzo. The National Master's idea is, first,
to consider whether or not it is possible to call the Buddha-Dharma �the
power to know others' minds. � Further, he thinks �If we speak of �the power
to know others' minds' we must take �others' in accordance with the Buddha's
truth, we must take �mind' in accordance with the Buddha's truth, and we
must take �the power to know' in accordance with the Buddha's truth, but
what this Sanzo is saying now does not accord with the Buddha's truth at
all. How could it be called the Buddha-Dharma? � These are the thoughts of
the National Master. The meaning of his testing is as follows: Even if [Sanzo]
says something the third time, if it is like the first two times�contrary to the
principles of the Buddha-Dharma and contrary to the fundamental intention
of the National Master�it must be criticized. When [the National Master]
asks three times, he is asking again and again whether Sanzo has been able
to understand the National Master's words.
[112] The second [doubt]�that [the five venerable patriarchs] do not
know the body and mind of the National Master�is namely that the body
and mind of the National Master cannot be known, and cannot be pene-
trated,36 by scholars of the Tripi? aka. It is beyond the attainment of [bodhi-
sattvas at] the ten sacred stages and the three clever stages, and it is beyond
clarification by [bodhisattvas at] the place of assignment or [in] the state of
balanced awareness,37 so how could the common person Sanzo know it? We
must clearly determine [the truth of] this principle. If [people] purport that
even Sanzo might know, or might attain to, the body and mind of the National
Master, it is because they themselves do not know the body and mind of the
National Master. If we say that people who have got the power to know oth-
ers' minds can know the National Master, then can the two vehicles also know
the National Master? That is impossible: people of the two vehicles can never
arrive at the periphery of the National Master. Nowadays many people of the
two vehicles have read the sutras of the Great Vehicle, [but] even they can-
not know the body and mind of the National Master. Further, they cannot see
the body and mind of the Buddha-Dharma, even in a dream. Even if they
seem to read and recite the sutras of the Great Vehicle, we should clearly
know that they are totally people of the Small Vehicles. In sum, the body and
mind of the National Master cannot be known by people who are acquiring
mystical powers or getting practice and experience. It might be difficult even
for the National Master to fathom the body and mind of the National Master.
Why? [Because] his conduct has long been free of the aim of becoming buddha;
and so even the Buddha's eye could not glimpse it. His leaving-and-coming
has far transcended the nest and cannot be restrained by nets and cages.
[114] Now I would like to examine and defeat each of the five venera-
ble patriarchs. Joshu says that because the National Master is right on Sanzo's
nostrils, [Sanzo] does not see. What does this comment mean? Such mis-
takes happen when we discuss details without clarifying the substance. How
could the National Master be right on Sanzo's nostrils? Sanzo has no nos-
trils. Moreover, although it does appear that the means are present for the
National Master and Sanzo to look at each other, there is no way for them
to get close to each other. Clear eyes will surely affirm [that this is so].
38Gensha says, �Simply because of being enormously close. � Certainly,
his �enormously close� can be left as it is, [but] he misses the point. What
state does he describe as �enormously close�? What object does he take to
be �enormously close�? Gensha has not recognized �enormous closeness,�
and has not experienced �enormous closeness. � In regard to the Buddha-
Dharma he is the farthest of the far.
Kyozan says, �The first two times [the master's] mind is wandering in
external circumstances; then he enters the samadhi of receiving and using
the self, and so [Sanzo] does not see him. � Though [Kyozan's] acclaim as a
little Sakyamuni echoes on high [even] in the Western Heavens, he is not
without such wrongness. If he is saying that when [people] see each other
[they] are inevitably wandering in external circumstances, then there would
seem to be no instance of Buddhist patriarchs seeing each other, and he would
appear not to have studied the virtues of affirmation and becoming buddha.
If he is saying that Sanzo, the first two times, was really able to know the
place where the National Master was, I must say that [Kyozan] does not
know the virtue of a single bristle of the National Master's hair.
Gensha demands, �Have you seen at all, even the first two times? � This
one utterance �Have you seen at all? � seems to say what needs to be said, but
it is not right because it suggests that [Sanzo's] seeing is like not seeing. 39
Hearing the above, Zen Master Setcho Myokaku40 says, �I am defeated.
I am defeated. � When we see Gensha's words as the truth, we should speak
like that; when we do not see them as the truth, we should not speak like that.
Kaie Tan says, �If the National Master is right on Sanzo's nostrils, what
difficulty could [Sanzo] have in seeing him? Above all, it has not been rec-
ognized that the National Master is inside Sanzo's eyeballs. � This again dis-
cusses [only] the third time. It does not criticize [Sanzo] as he should be crit-
icized, for not seeing the first two times as well. How could [Kaie] know
that the National Master is on [Sanzo's] nostrils or inside [Sanzo's] eyeballs?
[117] Every one of the five venerable patriarchs is blind to the virtue of
the National Master; it is as if they have no power to discern the truth of the
Buddha-Dharma. Remember, the National Master is just a buddha through
all the ages. He has definitely received the authentic transmission of the
Buddha's right Dharma-eye treasury. Scholars of the Tripi? aka, teachers of
commentaries, and others of the Small Vehicles, do not know the limits of
the National Master at all; and the proof of that is here. �The power to know
others' minds,� as it is discussed in the Small Vehicles, should be called �the
power to know others' ideas.
