You just now acknowledged that you had not learned it of others neither : and if you have nei ther found it out your self, nor learn'd it of others,
howcameyoutoknowit?
Plato - 1701 - Works - a
N o Questionbut he would give the best Counsel in this case.
Socrat. Can you tellme what thisWrestling-Mas terwould principallyregardingivinghisInstructions, with whom, when and how these different Exer cisesoughtto be perform'd? Would he nothave respect only to what is best ?
Alcib. Without doubt he would.
Socrat. Then hewould order 'em to be perform'd asoftenasitshouldbebestsotodo;andonsuch Occasionsasshouldbemostproper* , ?
Alcib. . Very true.
Socrat. He thatSingsoughtsometimestojoinehis Voice with the Harp ; and sometimes to dance as he Plays and Sings, and in all thishe shouldcconduct him selfbywhat isbest.
Alcib. That is most certain*
Socrat. SeeingthenthereisaBestinsinging,and inplayingonInstrumentsas wellasinWrestling,how willyoucallthisBest? Forasforthatof Wrest ling, all the World calls it the most Gymnajiick.
Alcib. I don't understand you. Socrat. Endeavourtofollowme ? ,formy partI
should answer that this Best, is that which is always the Best, and is not that which is always the best, t h a t w h i c h is m o s t a c c o r d i n g t o t h e R u l e s o f t h e A r t itself>
Alcib. You have reason.
Socrat. W h a t is this Art or Wrestling ? is it not the Gymnaftick Art ?
Alcib. Yes.
Socrat. WhatIhavebeensaying,isthatthatwhich isbest intheArt ofWrestling,iscall'dthe most Gym- nastick.
Alcib. This is what you have already said. Socrat. And thisisRight.
Alcib.
? ? \76
TheFirstAldbi&des} <#?
?
Alcib. Very Right.
Socrat. C o m e then, do you also endeavour to give mearightanswer. HowdoyoucallthatArt,which teaches to Sing, to play on the Harp, and to dance well? Can'tyou tellme that?
Alcib. N o indeed Socrates.
Socrat. Tryifyoucan'thiton'tinthisway. How do you call the Goddesses,that preside over this Art ?
Alcib. You mean the Muses.
Socrat. Verywell. Letusfeethenwhatname this Art has derived frdm them.
Alcib. O, 'tisMufick you speak of
Socrat. Very right ; and as I told you that which was perform'd accotding to the Rules ot the Art of WrestlingoroftheGymnasiumiscall'dOymnafikk: tellme alibhow you callthatwhich isaccording to the Rules of this other Art.
Alcib. I call it Musical, and fay such a thing is done Musically.
Socrat. Verygood. AndintheArtofmaking War andinthatofmakingPeace,what isthatwhich isbest,andhowdoyoucallit)Seingastothose two otherArtsyou laythatwhichisbestinme one is that which is most Gymnastick, and that which is best in the other is that which is :nost Musical ; trynowinlikemannertotellmedienameofthat which is bestin the Arts we are now upon:
Alcib. Indeed Socrates, Ican't tell. . Socrat. Butifanyoneiliouldhearyou discour
sing, and giving Advice about several sorts of Food, and saying that isbetter than this,both ibr the Season andOuality of it > and ihouldask you, Alcibiades, what isitthatyou callbetter>would itnotbeashame, ifyou could not answer, that you mean by better, thatwhichismorewholesome. Yet'tisnotyour professiontoleaPhysician. Andisitnotayet greater shame that you know not how to give an answer in things you profess to know, and about which you pretendtogiveAdvice,asunderstanding them better than others ? Does not this cover you with Confusion > Alcib:
? ? OstheNatureofMam 1 177
Alcib. Iconfessitdoes. Socrat. ApplyyourMindtoitthen-,andendea
vour to give m e an Account what is the design of thatbetterthing,whichweseekintheArtofmak ingPeaceorWarwiththosewithwhomwe ought
tobeeitherinWar orPeace. Alcib. Iknownothowtofinditout,whatEf
fort soever I make.
Socrat. Whatdon'tyouknowthatwhenwemake
War we complainofsomethingthathasbeendoneto us by those against whom we take up Arms ? AndareyouignorantoftheNamewegivetothe thing of which we complain ?
Alcib. IknowonsuchOccasionswefay,theyhave deceivedus, theyhaveinsultedus*,theyhavetakena- way our property. . . .
Socrat. Very well, when one of these things be falls us, I pray explain to m e the different manner inwhichtheymayhappen.
Alcib. You mean, Socratesthat they may befal us justly or unjustly.
Socrat. Ido so.
Alcib. And that makes aninfinitedifference. ,Socrat. Against what People then (hall the Athe
niansdeclare War byyourAdvice? shallitbea,-
gainst such as follow the Rules of Justice, or such
as act:unjustly? * ?
Alcib. A Pretty Question, Socrates? ,ifanyone.
s h o u l d b e c a p a b l e o f t h i n k i n g it n e e d f u l t o m a k e W a r withthosethatfollow theRulesofJusticejdoyou thinkhewoulddaretoownit>
Socrat. Because, you'll say,that isnot conforma ble to the Laws.
Alcib. No, doubtless^'tisneitherjust,nor ho norable.
. Socrat. You'll always then have Justice in view in allyou Counsels ?
Jilcih That isvery necessary.
Socrat. But is not that better thing about which 1 was just now enquiring of you on the Subject: of N Peace
? ? i; 8
77>e First Alcibiades ; or,
Peace orWar, viz. to know with whom, when and
how War and Peace (hould be made, * always the
most just ?
Alcib. Iam ofthatmind.
Socrat. H o w comes this to pals then, m y dear Al-
cibiades, isitthatyouperceivenotthatyou are ignorant of what is jult, or is it that I perceive not that you have learn'd it, and that you have secretly attended some Master who has taught you to dis tinguish well between what is most just, and what
is most unjust ? W h o is this Master ; I pray tell me, that you may put me under his Care, and re commendmetohim>
Alcib. These are your common Ironies, Socrates.
S o c r a t . N o , I s w e a r it b y t h a t G o d w h o p r e s i d e s o v e r ourFriendship,and whom Iwould leastoffend byPer- jury. Iveryseriouslyentreatyou,ifyouhavea Master,tellmewhoheis?
Alcib. And what ifI have none, do you think I could not otherwise know what isjust and unjust?
Socrat. You know itifyou have found itout your
self. Alcib. DoyouthinkIhavenotfounditout>?
Socrat. I a m perswaded you have found it if you have sought for it.
Alcib. D'ye think I have not sought for it ?
Socrat. Youhavesoughtforit^ifyouhavebeliev ed your selfignorant of it.
Alcib. D o you then imagine there was not a time WhenIwasignorantofit?
Socrat* You speak better than you think, but can you then precisely assign me the Time, when you believed you did not know what was just and un just ? Let us fee, was it the last year that you sought for the knowledge of this being throughly convinced of your Ignorance in this Matter ? Or did you then think you knew it ? Tell the truth, that our Con-
* t:is not sufficientto know what is just, we should know vvliar is most just, and this point isvery difficult to be found: this hnotwtdiinthereachoflittlePoliticians. M. U Fevrt.
versation
? ? OftheNatureofMam iy^
versationmay notappearvainandtrifling.
Alcib. The last year I believed I knew it. . , Socrat. And did you not think the lame, three,
four or five years ago ?
Alcib. Yes.
SoGrdt. And before that time you were no more
than a Child, were you, ?
Alcib. Very true.
Socrat. And at that time when you were but a
Child, t am very lure you thought you knew it Alcib. How areyouso sureofthat?
? Socrat. Because during your Child-hood, when
you were with your Masters and elsewhere ; and * when you play'd at Dice, or any other play ; I have very often observed you did not hesitate to de termine what was just, or unjust, and to tell the firstofyourPlay-fellowsthatoffendedyou, with a great deal of plainness and assurance, that he was base and unfair , and did you a great deal t of In
justice. IsnotthisTrue>
Alcib. What >>fhould I have done then do you
thinkwhenanyInjusticewasdoneme?
Socrat. If you were ignorant that what was of- fer'dyou was unjust, you might then have ask'd
what youshouldhavedone.
Alcib. But I was not at all ignorant of that, for
IverywellknewtheInjusticethatwasdoneme. . Socrat. By thisyoufeethen, thatwhen you were" but a Child you thought you knew what was Just
and Unjust. Alcib. IthoughtIknewit;andsoIreallydid. Socrat. Atwhattimedidyoufindthisout? for
Itwas notwhenyouthoughtyouknewit. Alcib. No. Doubtless.
Socrat. At what time then do you think you were
. * See what Alcibiades did one day as he was playingatDice,' as 'tis reported by Plutarch in the beginning of his Life. ,
f W h e n Children trick'd one another in their play, the ordinary; 7"erm they us'd at Athens was &'J)k&{ you, do me ,Injustice, oras w e fay Ton do me rvrong. There is a very express Instance of it, in Aristophanes his Clouds. M. Le F. tvre. JL
N 2 ignorant
? ? 180 TkHr/? Alcibiades;or,
ignorantofit? Consider,reckon. Iam muchaffraid you'll not be able to find that time.
Akib. Indeed Socrates I can't give you an Ac count of it.
Socrat. Then you have not found out of your self the knowledge of what is Just and Unjust ?
Alcih. So itseems, Socrates.
Socrat.
You just now acknowledged that you had not learned it of others neither : and if you have nei ther found it out your self, nor learn'd it of others, howcameyoutoknowit? Whencehadityou?
Ak'ib. But perhaps I mistook m y self, and did not
answeryouwell, whenItoldyouIhadfound itout
myself
Socrat. How did you learn itthen ?
Mclb. Ilearn'ditasothersdid.
Foritmst Socrat. Then we aretobeginagain,tellmeof howZddojwhom y? u learn'd iL
whomothers Mew. Ilearn'ditofthePeople. leam'dit, ,Socrnt. Now youquoteabadMaster.
andthat gots ad
Alcib. What isnotthePeoplecapableofteaching -lt ? '
Socrat. So far from that, that they are not capa
ble of teaching one to judge right * of a G a m e at Ta
b l e s -, a n d t h a t i s m u c h l e s s i m p o r t a n t a n d l e s s d i f f i - ? cult, than to understand Justice ;don't you think so
aswellasI? ,
Alcib. Yes without doubt.
Socrat. And iftheyknow riothow toteachyou
thingsoflittleornoconsequence, how shouldthey teachyou thingsof thisImportance andSolidity ?
Jlcib. 1am Ofyourmind ;yetthepeopleareca pableofteachingagreatmany thingsmuchmoreso lid, than any thing that belongs to this Play.
Socrat. What arethose?
J Lib. Our Language for Instance ; I learn'd that
* This play was ne. 'ther pur Draughts nor Chefs } bur a more Philosophical Game, for it taught the motions of the Heavens, the courseoftheSun,thatoftheMoon,theEclipses,&c. FUtofays in his Pbtdrus, h was invented by the Egyptians.
only
? ? >>as a Child's Masttr.
Of the"Natureof Man,
only of the People ; \ can't name you any one single M a s t e r I h a d f o r it j I a m a l t o g e t h e r o b l i g ' d t o t h e peopleforit,whom yetyou accountsobad aMaster.
Socrat. Thisisaverydifferentcafe. *Inthisthe people is a veryExcellent Master ;and w e have always, Reason to apply our selves to 'em on this Account.
Alcib. Why?
Socrat. Becausetheyhaveeverythingthatthebest Mastersoughttohave. ,
Alcib. Why, what havethey? ?
Socrat. Ought not they that would teach, others any thing, first to know it well themselves?
Alcib. Who doubts it?
Socrat. Oughtnottheywhoknowanythingwell to agree about what they know, and never dispute a b o u t i t -, f o r i f t h e y s h o u l d d i s p u t e a b o u t i t , w o u l d you believe'emtobewellinstructedinit? andcould they be able to teach it to others ?
Alcib. By no means.
Socrat. Doyoufeethepeopledisagreeaboutwhat
a Stone and a Stick is? Ask all our Citizens that ques tion, they'll answer you alike, and when they go a- bout to take up a,Stone or a Stick, they'llall run tothesamething,andsooftherest. ForIunder stand this is what you mean by knowing the Lan guage -,allourCitizensconstantlyagreeaboutthis bothwithoneanother,andwiththemselves. Of all our Greek Cities there is not one that disputes
abouttheSignificationanduseofWords. Sothat the People are very good to teach us the Tongue -, andwe can'tdobetterthantolearnof'em,butif i n s t e a d o f d e s i r i n g t o l e a r n w h a t a H o r s e is, w e w o u l d , know what a good Horse is; would the People, do youthink, becapableofinformingus?
Alcib. No certainly*
Socrat. For onecertainsign thattheydon'tknow * ThiswastrueitAthensespecially,wherealltheCitizensspeak
ingperfectlywell, and therebeingnodifferentuseofWords, as now adays among us, the people was an Excellcnc Maler for the ground ofthe Laqguage. ThereforeA ijlopbMts[\ptihe first Comtf
N3 it,
? ? i%i
7he First Alcibiades ? or^
it,andthattheyknownothow toteachit, isthat theycan'tagreeaboutitamongthemselves. Inlike mannerifwedesiretoknow, notwhataMan is, but what a found or unsound M a n is ; would the People be in a Condition to teach us this ?
Alcib. Still less than the other.
Socrat. And when youshouldsee'emagreesolit tle among themselves ; would you not judge 5em to, be very bad Instructors ?
Alcib. Without any difficulty.
Socrat. And do you think the People agree better w i t h t h e m s e l v e s o r o t h e r s a b o u t w h a t isjuft a n d unjust? ,
Alcib. N o indeed Socrates.
Socrat. You believethentheyagreeleastofall
about that ?
ic Alcib. I Jam thoroughly convinc'd of it.
Socrat. Have you ever seen or read that to main tainthatathingisfoundorunsound, Men haveta kenupArmsagainsteachother, andknock'doneano ther o'th'head ?
L Alcib. What a folly must that be !
Socrat. Well, ifyouhavenotseenit,atleastyou have read th>>t this 'has happen'd to maintain that a thing isJust orllnjust. For you have read Homer's Odyfsee and Wade. Alcib. Yes Certainly.
Thecauseof Socrat. IsnotthedifferenceMen havealways, f/r T? ? 1? \. had about Justice and Injustice, the foundation of
M o Z ^ those Poems ? Was it not this difference that Warsis tg-caused so many Battles and Slaughters between the
rioranaaniGreeks and Trojans? was it not this that made injisict. UfyssesundergoibmanyDangersandsomuchToil,
and that ruin'd Penelope's Lovers I Alcib. You fay right.
Socrat. Was itnot thisfame difference that de stroyssomanyAthenians, Lacedemonians,andBeo- tians at the famous t Battel of Tanagra^ and after
* ThisgreatBattlewasfoughtthelastyearoftheLXXXOlym piad). TheAthenianCaptain,whogain'dft,wasnam'dMyrd-
nides. Socrateswasthen12yearsofAge, ortherabout. M. U Ftvrt. '? ? ? "? '? . . -,. -. -v-. r. -. * . -'? '
'" *
that
? ? OftheNatureofMan. 183
that again atthe*Battle cAECoronea where your Fa ther was kill'd ?
Alcib. Who candeny thisi
Socrat. Shallwethendaretofaythepeopleknows a thing well, about which they dispute with so much Animosity, that they are carried to the most fatal Extremities ?
Alcib. No certainly*
Socrat. Very good ! And yet arenot thesetheMas tersyoucite, whenatthefametimeyouacknowledge their Ignorance ?
Alcib. I confess it.
Socrat. What Probability then is there that you shouldknowwhatisJustandUnjust,aboutwhich youappearsouncerlpnandfluctuating-y andwhich you confess you have neither learn'd of others, nor found out your self?
Alcib. According to what you say there is no Pro bability of it at all.
Socrat. How! accordingtowhatIfay> Youspeak not right, Alcibiades, say rather 'tis according to what you fay your self
Alcib. How ! isitnotyou thatfay,Iknow nothing at all of what belongs to Justiceand Injustice ?
Socrat. No, indeed,'tisnotI. Alcib. Whothen? IsitI? Socrat. Yes, 'tisyour self. Alcib. How so?
S o c r a t . I ' l l t e l l y o u h o w s o ? , a n d y o u w i l l a g r e e
withme. IfIshouldaskyouwhichisthegrea testNumber, one, ortwo ? ,youwould immediatly
answer two ;and ifIshould againaskyou how much greaterthisNumberisthantheother;youwould likewiseanswer, that'tisgreaterbyone.
,Alcib. Very true.
, *,ThisBattleofCormta. vcasfought thesecondyearofthe
LXXXIIIOlymp. HerethebraveTolmidtsvvjskill'd;after
whichtheAtheniansweredrivenoutofBeotia. Socrateswas then22yearsofA^e. ThisBatdeofCormiYv*octenthrough
mistake,beenccnfpuadcdwiththatofCbirpnea. M. LeFtvre.
N 4 Socrat.
? ? ffT
Alcib. Thismustbegranted. '? ? '
Socrat. 'Tis your self that have laid that the fine Alcibiades the Son of G//h<w, not knowing what is ^ust and Unjust, and yet thinking he knows it very well, is going to the Assembly of the Athenians to
give them hisAdvice about such things as he knows nothing of ; Isitnot so ? ? ;
Alcib. "Tis even so.
Socrat. One may then apply to you, Alcibiades,
j84
'TheFirstAlcibiacksj or,
Socrat. Which of us two would it be then that wouldfaytwoismotethanonejwoulditbeI? j
Alcib. No, 'twould be I.
Socrat. For it was I that ask'd, and you that an-
swer'd. IsitnotthesamethinginthepresentQues tion? Alc'ib. That'scertain.
Socrat If I should ask you what Letters compose
SocrateshisName,andyoushouldtell'emme one^f- ter another, which of us two would tell them ? ?
'-. ' A l c i b , I s h o u l d d o i t w i t h o u t d o u b t .
Socrat. ForinaDiscoursewhich isspentinQues
tions and Answers ; he that asks never affirms, but
Thisprovesalwayshethatanswers. "TisIthathaveask'dyou, thevfefd-. and 'tisyou that have answer'd, 'tisyou therefore *? u! iks tnat nave affirm'd the things fbw have said.
'Tkhthe,thatsayingofEuripides. Tisthyselfthathasna- tragedyofmej-;>. YoxitisnotIthathavespokenit,butyour H'PPy- self-,andyouaretoblametochargeitonme.
'?
Socrat. Can you tellme what thisWrestling-Mas terwould principallyregardingivinghisInstructions, with whom, when and how these different Exer cisesoughtto be perform'd? Would he nothave respect only to what is best ?
Alcib. Without doubt he would.
Socrat. Then hewould order 'em to be perform'd asoftenasitshouldbebestsotodo;andonsuch Occasionsasshouldbemostproper* , ?
Alcib. . Very true.
Socrat. He thatSingsoughtsometimestojoinehis Voice with the Harp ; and sometimes to dance as he Plays and Sings, and in all thishe shouldcconduct him selfbywhat isbest.
Alcib. That is most certain*
Socrat. SeeingthenthereisaBestinsinging,and inplayingonInstrumentsas wellasinWrestling,how willyoucallthisBest? Forasforthatof Wrest ling, all the World calls it the most Gymnajiick.
Alcib. I don't understand you. Socrat. Endeavourtofollowme ? ,formy partI
should answer that this Best, is that which is always the Best, and is not that which is always the best, t h a t w h i c h is m o s t a c c o r d i n g t o t h e R u l e s o f t h e A r t itself>
Alcib. You have reason.
Socrat. W h a t is this Art or Wrestling ? is it not the Gymnaftick Art ?
Alcib. Yes.
Socrat. WhatIhavebeensaying,isthatthatwhich isbest intheArt ofWrestling,iscall'dthe most Gym- nastick.
Alcib. This is what you have already said. Socrat. And thisisRight.
Alcib.
? ? \76
TheFirstAldbi&des} <#?
?
Alcib. Very Right.
Socrat. C o m e then, do you also endeavour to give mearightanswer. HowdoyoucallthatArt,which teaches to Sing, to play on the Harp, and to dance well? Can'tyou tellme that?
Alcib. N o indeed Socrates.
Socrat. Tryifyoucan'thiton'tinthisway. How do you call the Goddesses,that preside over this Art ?
Alcib. You mean the Muses.
Socrat. Verywell. Letusfeethenwhatname this Art has derived frdm them.
Alcib. O, 'tisMufick you speak of
Socrat. Very right ; and as I told you that which was perform'd accotding to the Rules ot the Art of WrestlingoroftheGymnasiumiscall'dOymnafikk: tellme alibhow you callthatwhich isaccording to the Rules of this other Art.
Alcib. I call it Musical, and fay such a thing is done Musically.
Socrat. Verygood. AndintheArtofmaking War andinthatofmakingPeace,what isthatwhich isbest,andhowdoyoucallit)Seingastothose two otherArtsyou laythatwhichisbestinme one is that which is most Gymnastick, and that which is best in the other is that which is :nost Musical ; trynowinlikemannertotellmedienameofthat which is bestin the Arts we are now upon:
Alcib. Indeed Socrates, Ican't tell. . Socrat. Butifanyoneiliouldhearyou discour
sing, and giving Advice about several sorts of Food, and saying that isbetter than this,both ibr the Season andOuality of it > and ihouldask you, Alcibiades, what isitthatyou callbetter>would itnotbeashame, ifyou could not answer, that you mean by better, thatwhichismorewholesome. Yet'tisnotyour professiontoleaPhysician. Andisitnotayet greater shame that you know not how to give an answer in things you profess to know, and about which you pretendtogiveAdvice,asunderstanding them better than others ? Does not this cover you with Confusion > Alcib:
? ? OstheNatureofMam 1 177
Alcib. Iconfessitdoes. Socrat. ApplyyourMindtoitthen-,andendea
vour to give m e an Account what is the design of thatbetterthing,whichweseekintheArtofmak ingPeaceorWarwiththosewithwhomwe ought
tobeeitherinWar orPeace. Alcib. Iknownothowtofinditout,whatEf
fort soever I make.
Socrat. Whatdon'tyouknowthatwhenwemake
War we complainofsomethingthathasbeendoneto us by those against whom we take up Arms ? AndareyouignorantoftheNamewegivetothe thing of which we complain ?
Alcib. IknowonsuchOccasionswefay,theyhave deceivedus, theyhaveinsultedus*,theyhavetakena- way our property. . . .
Socrat. Very well, when one of these things be falls us, I pray explain to m e the different manner inwhichtheymayhappen.
Alcib. You mean, Socratesthat they may befal us justly or unjustly.
Socrat. Ido so.
Alcib. And that makes aninfinitedifference. ,Socrat. Against what People then (hall the Athe
niansdeclare War byyourAdvice? shallitbea,-
gainst such as follow the Rules of Justice, or such
as act:unjustly? * ?
Alcib. A Pretty Question, Socrates? ,ifanyone.
s h o u l d b e c a p a b l e o f t h i n k i n g it n e e d f u l t o m a k e W a r withthosethatfollow theRulesofJusticejdoyou thinkhewoulddaretoownit>
Socrat. Because, you'll say,that isnot conforma ble to the Laws.
Alcib. No, doubtless^'tisneitherjust,nor ho norable.
. Socrat. You'll always then have Justice in view in allyou Counsels ?
Jilcih That isvery necessary.
Socrat. But is not that better thing about which 1 was just now enquiring of you on the Subject: of N Peace
? ? i; 8
77>e First Alcibiades ; or,
Peace orWar, viz. to know with whom, when and
how War and Peace (hould be made, * always the
most just ?
Alcib. Iam ofthatmind.
Socrat. H o w comes this to pals then, m y dear Al-
cibiades, isitthatyouperceivenotthatyou are ignorant of what is jult, or is it that I perceive not that you have learn'd it, and that you have secretly attended some Master who has taught you to dis tinguish well between what is most just, and what
is most unjust ? W h o is this Master ; I pray tell me, that you may put me under his Care, and re commendmetohim>
Alcib. These are your common Ironies, Socrates.
S o c r a t . N o , I s w e a r it b y t h a t G o d w h o p r e s i d e s o v e r ourFriendship,and whom Iwould leastoffend byPer- jury. Iveryseriouslyentreatyou,ifyouhavea Master,tellmewhoheis?
Alcib. And what ifI have none, do you think I could not otherwise know what isjust and unjust?
Socrat. You know itifyou have found itout your
self. Alcib. DoyouthinkIhavenotfounditout>?
Socrat. I a m perswaded you have found it if you have sought for it.
Alcib. D'ye think I have not sought for it ?
Socrat. Youhavesoughtforit^ifyouhavebeliev ed your selfignorant of it.
Alcib. D o you then imagine there was not a time WhenIwasignorantofit?
Socrat* You speak better than you think, but can you then precisely assign me the Time, when you believed you did not know what was just and un just ? Let us fee, was it the last year that you sought for the knowledge of this being throughly convinced of your Ignorance in this Matter ? Or did you then think you knew it ? Tell the truth, that our Con-
* t:is not sufficientto know what is just, we should know vvliar is most just, and this point isvery difficult to be found: this hnotwtdiinthereachoflittlePoliticians. M. U Fevrt.
versation
? ? OftheNatureofMam iy^
versationmay notappearvainandtrifling.
Alcib. The last year I believed I knew it. . , Socrat. And did you not think the lame, three,
four or five years ago ?
Alcib. Yes.
SoGrdt. And before that time you were no more
than a Child, were you, ?
Alcib. Very true.
Socrat. And at that time when you were but a
Child, t am very lure you thought you knew it Alcib. How areyouso sureofthat?
? Socrat. Because during your Child-hood, when
you were with your Masters and elsewhere ; and * when you play'd at Dice, or any other play ; I have very often observed you did not hesitate to de termine what was just, or unjust, and to tell the firstofyourPlay-fellowsthatoffendedyou, with a great deal of plainness and assurance, that he was base and unfair , and did you a great deal t of In
justice. IsnotthisTrue>
Alcib. What >>fhould I have done then do you
thinkwhenanyInjusticewasdoneme?
Socrat. If you were ignorant that what was of- fer'dyou was unjust, you might then have ask'd
what youshouldhavedone.
Alcib. But I was not at all ignorant of that, for
IverywellknewtheInjusticethatwasdoneme. . Socrat. By thisyoufeethen, thatwhen you were" but a Child you thought you knew what was Just
and Unjust. Alcib. IthoughtIknewit;andsoIreallydid. Socrat. Atwhattimedidyoufindthisout? for
Itwas notwhenyouthoughtyouknewit. Alcib. No. Doubtless.
Socrat. At what time then do you think you were
. * See what Alcibiades did one day as he was playingatDice,' as 'tis reported by Plutarch in the beginning of his Life. ,
f W h e n Children trick'd one another in their play, the ordinary; 7"erm they us'd at Athens was &'J)k&{ you, do me ,Injustice, oras w e fay Ton do me rvrong. There is a very express Instance of it, in Aristophanes his Clouds. M. Le F. tvre. JL
N 2 ignorant
? ? 180 TkHr/? Alcibiades;or,
ignorantofit? Consider,reckon. Iam muchaffraid you'll not be able to find that time.
Akib. Indeed Socrates I can't give you an Ac count of it.
Socrat. Then you have not found out of your self the knowledge of what is Just and Unjust ?
Alcih. So itseems, Socrates.
Socrat.
You just now acknowledged that you had not learned it of others neither : and if you have nei ther found it out your self, nor learn'd it of others, howcameyoutoknowit? Whencehadityou?
Ak'ib. But perhaps I mistook m y self, and did not
answeryouwell, whenItoldyouIhadfound itout
myself
Socrat. How did you learn itthen ?
Mclb. Ilearn'ditasothersdid.
Foritmst Socrat. Then we aretobeginagain,tellmeof howZddojwhom y? u learn'd iL
whomothers Mew. Ilearn'ditofthePeople. leam'dit, ,Socrnt. Now youquoteabadMaster.
andthat gots ad
Alcib. What isnotthePeoplecapableofteaching -lt ? '
Socrat. So far from that, that they are not capa
ble of teaching one to judge right * of a G a m e at Ta
b l e s -, a n d t h a t i s m u c h l e s s i m p o r t a n t a n d l e s s d i f f i - ? cult, than to understand Justice ;don't you think so
aswellasI? ,
Alcib. Yes without doubt.
Socrat. And iftheyknow riothow toteachyou
thingsoflittleornoconsequence, how shouldthey teachyou thingsof thisImportance andSolidity ?
Jlcib. 1am Ofyourmind ;yetthepeopleareca pableofteachingagreatmany thingsmuchmoreso lid, than any thing that belongs to this Play.
Socrat. What arethose?
J Lib. Our Language for Instance ; I learn'd that
* This play was ne. 'ther pur Draughts nor Chefs } bur a more Philosophical Game, for it taught the motions of the Heavens, the courseoftheSun,thatoftheMoon,theEclipses,&c. FUtofays in his Pbtdrus, h was invented by the Egyptians.
only
? ? >>as a Child's Masttr.
Of the"Natureof Man,
only of the People ; \ can't name you any one single M a s t e r I h a d f o r it j I a m a l t o g e t h e r o b l i g ' d t o t h e peopleforit,whom yetyou accountsobad aMaster.
Socrat. Thisisaverydifferentcafe. *Inthisthe people is a veryExcellent Master ;and w e have always, Reason to apply our selves to 'em on this Account.
Alcib. Why?
Socrat. Becausetheyhaveeverythingthatthebest Mastersoughttohave. ,
Alcib. Why, what havethey? ?
Socrat. Ought not they that would teach, others any thing, first to know it well themselves?
Alcib. Who doubts it?
Socrat. Oughtnottheywhoknowanythingwell to agree about what they know, and never dispute a b o u t i t -, f o r i f t h e y s h o u l d d i s p u t e a b o u t i t , w o u l d you believe'emtobewellinstructedinit? andcould they be able to teach it to others ?
Alcib. By no means.
Socrat. Doyoufeethepeopledisagreeaboutwhat
a Stone and a Stick is? Ask all our Citizens that ques tion, they'll answer you alike, and when they go a- bout to take up a,Stone or a Stick, they'llall run tothesamething,andsooftherest. ForIunder stand this is what you mean by knowing the Lan guage -,allourCitizensconstantlyagreeaboutthis bothwithoneanother,andwiththemselves. Of all our Greek Cities there is not one that disputes
abouttheSignificationanduseofWords. Sothat the People are very good to teach us the Tongue -, andwe can'tdobetterthantolearnof'em,butif i n s t e a d o f d e s i r i n g t o l e a r n w h a t a H o r s e is, w e w o u l d , know what a good Horse is; would the People, do youthink, becapableofinformingus?
Alcib. No certainly*
Socrat. For onecertainsign thattheydon'tknow * ThiswastrueitAthensespecially,wherealltheCitizensspeak
ingperfectlywell, and therebeingnodifferentuseofWords, as now adays among us, the people was an Excellcnc Maler for the ground ofthe Laqguage. ThereforeA ijlopbMts[\ptihe first Comtf
N3 it,
? ? i%i
7he First Alcibiades ? or^
it,andthattheyknownothow toteachit, isthat theycan'tagreeaboutitamongthemselves. Inlike mannerifwedesiretoknow, notwhataMan is, but what a found or unsound M a n is ; would the People be in a Condition to teach us this ?
Alcib. Still less than the other.
Socrat. And when youshouldsee'emagreesolit tle among themselves ; would you not judge 5em to, be very bad Instructors ?
Alcib. Without any difficulty.
Socrat. And do you think the People agree better w i t h t h e m s e l v e s o r o t h e r s a b o u t w h a t isjuft a n d unjust? ,
Alcib. N o indeed Socrates.
Socrat. You believethentheyagreeleastofall
about that ?
ic Alcib. I Jam thoroughly convinc'd of it.
Socrat. Have you ever seen or read that to main tainthatathingisfoundorunsound, Men haveta kenupArmsagainsteachother, andknock'doneano ther o'th'head ?
L Alcib. What a folly must that be !
Socrat. Well, ifyouhavenotseenit,atleastyou have read th>>t this 'has happen'd to maintain that a thing isJust orllnjust. For you have read Homer's Odyfsee and Wade. Alcib. Yes Certainly.
Thecauseof Socrat. IsnotthedifferenceMen havealways, f/r T? ? 1? \. had about Justice and Injustice, the foundation of
M o Z ^ those Poems ? Was it not this difference that Warsis tg-caused so many Battles and Slaughters between the
rioranaaniGreeks and Trojans? was it not this that made injisict. UfyssesundergoibmanyDangersandsomuchToil,
and that ruin'd Penelope's Lovers I Alcib. You fay right.
Socrat. Was itnot thisfame difference that de stroyssomanyAthenians, Lacedemonians,andBeo- tians at the famous t Battel of Tanagra^ and after
* ThisgreatBattlewasfoughtthelastyearoftheLXXXOlym piad). TheAthenianCaptain,whogain'dft,wasnam'dMyrd-
nides. Socrateswasthen12yearsofAge, ortherabout. M. U Ftvrt. '? ? ? "? '? . . -,. -. -v-. r. -. * . -'? '
'" *
that
? ? OftheNatureofMan. 183
that again atthe*Battle cAECoronea where your Fa ther was kill'd ?
Alcib. Who candeny thisi
Socrat. Shallwethendaretofaythepeopleknows a thing well, about which they dispute with so much Animosity, that they are carried to the most fatal Extremities ?
Alcib. No certainly*
Socrat. Very good ! And yet arenot thesetheMas tersyoucite, whenatthefametimeyouacknowledge their Ignorance ?
Alcib. I confess it.
Socrat. What Probability then is there that you shouldknowwhatisJustandUnjust,aboutwhich youappearsouncerlpnandfluctuating-y andwhich you confess you have neither learn'd of others, nor found out your self?
Alcib. According to what you say there is no Pro bability of it at all.
Socrat. How! accordingtowhatIfay> Youspeak not right, Alcibiades, say rather 'tis according to what you fay your self
Alcib. How ! isitnotyou thatfay,Iknow nothing at all of what belongs to Justiceand Injustice ?
Socrat. No, indeed,'tisnotI. Alcib. Whothen? IsitI? Socrat. Yes, 'tisyour self. Alcib. How so?
S o c r a t . I ' l l t e l l y o u h o w s o ? , a n d y o u w i l l a g r e e
withme. IfIshouldaskyouwhichisthegrea testNumber, one, ortwo ? ,youwould immediatly
answer two ;and ifIshould againaskyou how much greaterthisNumberisthantheother;youwould likewiseanswer, that'tisgreaterbyone.
,Alcib. Very true.
, *,ThisBattleofCormta. vcasfought thesecondyearofthe
LXXXIIIOlymp. HerethebraveTolmidtsvvjskill'd;after
whichtheAtheniansweredrivenoutofBeotia. Socrateswas then22yearsofA^e. ThisBatdeofCormiYv*octenthrough
mistake,beenccnfpuadcdwiththatofCbirpnea. M. LeFtvre.
N 4 Socrat.
? ? ffT
Alcib. Thismustbegranted. '? ? '
Socrat. 'Tis your self that have laid that the fine Alcibiades the Son of G//h<w, not knowing what is ^ust and Unjust, and yet thinking he knows it very well, is going to the Assembly of the Athenians to
give them hisAdvice about such things as he knows nothing of ; Isitnot so ? ? ;
Alcib. "Tis even so.
Socrat. One may then apply to you, Alcibiades,
j84
'TheFirstAlcibiacksj or,
Socrat. Which of us two would it be then that wouldfaytwoismotethanonejwoulditbeI? j
Alcib. No, 'twould be I.
Socrat. For it was I that ask'd, and you that an-
swer'd. IsitnotthesamethinginthepresentQues tion? Alc'ib. That'scertain.
Socrat If I should ask you what Letters compose
SocrateshisName,andyoushouldtell'emme one^f- ter another, which of us two would tell them ? ?
'-. ' A l c i b , I s h o u l d d o i t w i t h o u t d o u b t .
Socrat. ForinaDiscoursewhich isspentinQues
tions and Answers ; he that asks never affirms, but
Thisprovesalwayshethatanswers. "TisIthathaveask'dyou, thevfefd-. and 'tisyou that have answer'd, 'tisyou therefore *? u! iks tnat nave affirm'd the things fbw have said.
'Tkhthe,thatsayingofEuripides. Tisthyselfthathasna- tragedyofmej-;>. YoxitisnotIthathavespokenit,butyour H'PPy- self-,andyouaretoblametochargeitonme.
'?
