No More Learning

* This interview between Peter Sloterdijk and M. Walid Nakschbandi appeared under the title ‘Das heilige Feuer der Unzufriedenheit: Peter Sloterdijk über den Fortschritt’, in Utz Claassen and Jürgen Hogrefe (eds), Das neue Denken – Das Neue denken (Göttingen: Steidl Verlag), 2005, pp. 69–77.
M. Walid Nakschbandi is a journalist, television producer and manager of the Georg von Holtzbrinck Publishing Group.
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NAKSCHBANDI: So it was a nicely rounded issue to begin with. But then something got in the way?
SLOTERDIJK: You could say that. From the nineteenth century on, the bourgeois world began trying to find the good in the line. That is a remarkable process because the line didn’t have a high reputation in traditional geometry. In the past, people had always seen linear processes as final movements, movements that could wear down and basically lead nowhere except to decay. Circular processes, however, lead back to themselves, and that qualifies them for the good infinity. The greatest break made by the modern era is that human beings conceived an absolute movement of a new type that constantly moved upwards from a less valuable to a more valuable state. That means something like upgrading of being as a whole. It is a rather heretical idea because if we assume God created the world, such a process is pure sacrilege. After all, God can’t have created anything except the best.
But why is it that we don’t all feel we are under the curse of heresy? The answer is that since around the sixteenth century our society has been experiencing a mental shift that contemporary people still can’t evaluate completely: the shift from a metaphysics of the complete world to a metaphysics of the incomplete world. This means we have shifted from the concept of creation, that is, of the finished work, to the concept of gradual development – from completed being to relative becoming. And that made us capable of participating in movements that go from the less good to the better without being suspected of blasphemy.
NAKSCHBANDI: How should we imagine that transformation?
SLOTERDIJK: Moving directly from God to the world, we seem to go from the very best to second best. This is how Plato classically articulated it in Timaios, his dialogue on natural philosophy. He said that because God is good, perfectly good in fact, anything he produced in his capacity as the world artisan or demiurge must be as excellent as possible within the limits of reality. That is, the work of a perfect author will be slightly less perfect than the author himself. But if the author has to be one degree better than his statement, the work of the best author remains the best possible. This means that the perfection of God implies that of the world, with the said limitation.
In other words, the deeper the insight of a philosopher, the more optimistic his manner of expression was. Optimism is the last word of classical philosophy because a long time ago thinking meant nothing but the celebration of being. The most appropriate form of being-celebration is superlative speech: we must only say the best about God and the world. This is the exact point at which we feel the
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break between antiquity and modernity most powerfully, because nobody today would be willing to celebrate everything in existence as the best, the highest, the cleverest, the most perfect, etc. Those superlatives are only possible in satire now. The modern world sub- stitutes the rhetoric of superlatives with a comparatist one. Today, we always want to compare conditions so that the earlier come out worse and the later come out better. This puts us in contradic- tion to all the established theories in antiquity: when the ancients talked about changing conditions they nearly always told stories of decay. According to them, once, in the Golden Age, everything was perfect, and then the first deficits appeared. Finally, everything was rather bad and, in the end, quite devastating. The third deteriora- tion brings us to the narrator’s present day, the Iron Age in which humans are found. A narrative that follows a downward line like that could serve as a popular explanation for why people feel miser- able: they are in bad shape because they are at the murky end of a decline from the perfect to the corrupt.
In the ancient world, however, there was also secret knowl- edge that taught its adepts to see the general unhappiness as only apparent. The real sages of the past thought they had discovered a secret reason to rejoice that released an inner reserve of happiness. According to them, a person who was unhappy with the world was only deceived by the semblance of unhappiness. This deep irony defines the relationship between the sage and the masses in the ancient world. The sage pretended to have discovered a deep-seated reason for happiness that normal unhappy people were not capable of perceiving. The sage alone saw the great cycles of order from an esoteric perspective, whereas profane people remained trapped without vision in their preoccupation with unhappiness.
That is exactly what has changed in the modern age. A great reversal of auspices has taken place, and it has been achieved by the powerful idea of progress we referred to earlier. We must admit, however, that we generally know only a very trite form of this. All the same, even we normal people make our comparisons in a semi-optimistic light because we are used to putting the less good together with the better. We remain as optimizing logi- cians or idealists who want to improve the world, and at the very least we try to improve things. Today, this logic still lies behind every pragmatic programme we have to carry out. The duty to improve relates to all spheres of existence – the daily environment, machines, production processes, medicines, teaching methods, living conditions, etc. Consequently, what is essential for us is no longer the perfect archetype but a series of improvements. Plato’s original images have been transformed into models that can be
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optimized. Models are blueprints for construction that aspire to further perfection.
NAKSCHBANDI: Give us an example.
SLOTERDIJK: Modern design is full of striking examples. Let’s take a typical design object like a ballpoint pen. First it had to be invented: it began with a refill with a tiny ball at the top, and the whole thing was encased in a stabilizing sheath. The writing move- ment triggered the rotation of the ball, drawing the ink flow out of the refill. In a Platonic world, the original ballpoint pen would also be the ultimate ballpoint pen because nothing better could follow. Things look different from a modern perspective, and it is no sur- prise to us that the world is awash with thousands of variations of the ballpoint pen idea. Some of those variations can be more than mere modifications of the archetype, and sometimes represent genuine optimization or further development. Such improvements relate, for example, to the pen’s ‘click’ mechanism, which is self-retractable in some models to prevent damage to our best suit even if we forget to shut off the refill. Or the pen may be made more comfortable to hold, or the ink flow improved, etc. Countless luxury and cheap ver- sions of the ballpoint pen have been developed and customers can choose from a price range of 20 cents to €20,000. Immense design energy is being expended on this all the time. A product that was invented years ago is rethought over and over again as thoroughly as if it were supposed to be reinvented.
Does it really make sense to talk about progress in this context? The ballpoint is a good example of how it is impossible to repeat the initial progress, that is, the conceptual and technical leap that happened when that type of pen was first invented, with the whole impact of the first-time-ever. It is impossible really to invent the object a second time. On the other hand, the basic idea can be varied ingeniously and endlessly – and that’s usually enough to give us the feeling that the horizon is open. We attach importance to the fact that micro-optimizations always remain possible. Perhaps that is the actual stance of progress.
All optimizing tendencies in individual developments have a cul- mination area like an estuary, of course. I would argue that today, in a large number of areas of technical and social evolution, for example, we are already in the culmination area of primary innova- tions. Many inventions from the past are approaching their final saturation phase. Where the models have largely been perfected, things come to a standstill that can only be superseded aesthetically – think of the automobile industry, with a product that has cer- tainly been thought through to the end in most respects. Additional micro-innovations such as the retractable outside mirror can be
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accumulated and hailed as a revolution, but we all know there can’t be any real improvement beyond the ‘very good’ marker.
Let me make it clear: at most, the points I have just made are a prelude to what I want to say on the topic of progress and inno- vation from a philosophical perspective. By now we should have realized that the concept of progress is a naïve metaphor of move- ment that was only partially useful in the initial stages of industrial society. The idea of progress was a useful, nearly indispensable pilot metaphor for the transitional period because it helped those who made the transition to believe they were going in the right direction with their progressive vehicle. Conservatives, incidentally, never shared this belief and mocked the concept of progress from the very beginning.
NAKSCHBANDI: Who are those conservatives?
SLOTERDIJK: Conservatives include, for example, anti-mod- ernists, religious fundamentalists, devotees of classical metaphysics and owners of choice libraries and wine cellars. In other words, everyone who adheres to the metaphysics of perfection and believes more in decline than in progress. In addition, there are the moral conservatives who are convinced that human beings are bad and should be controlled rather than let free.
NAKSCHBANDI: In your opinion, how does the breathlessness related to the concept of progress occur? Why are we never satisfied with what we have?
SLOTERDIJK: For centuries, we have only cultivated the move- ment of setting off and have neglected the culture of arriving. To use a river metaphor: we are strong at rising, but rather clumsy at debouching. We only rarely allow ourselves to regress into the feeling of completion, and that isn’t enough to develop a culture of debouchment. Everybody knows the related scenes. When several progressive gentlemen sit together in a really excellent haute cuisine restaurant for a few moments, they forget progress and realize that now is the time for perfection. They praise what is on their plates so lavishly that we understand: those people are not setting off; they have arrived. Otherwise, we avoid being at our destination almost everywhere. We live in an automatic mode of setting off as a matter of habit.
The few people today who admit to having arrived, the rare people who enjoy things, the people in the river estuary, may be heralds of a future civilization. We don’t understand such people very well yet because they don’t seem to feel the holy fire of dissatisfaction any longer, the fire from which progress originated. I think this will change in a matter of decades. By the beginning of the twenty-first century our experiences with the world’s dynamics of innovation
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have become so complex that the language of progress alone isn’t adequate for expressing our experiences any more. That is why we should place the rhetoric of debouchment beside the usual rhetoric of progress. Sooner or later people will understand that standstill at the highest level is an extremely valuable asset, although at first it may infuriate some entrepreneurs condemned to being dynamic. But even they are not completely immune to the subversive realiza- tion that in some respects, perhaps the most important ones, they have long since reached their goal.
NAKSCHBANDI: Is the state of having arrived a state of happiness?
SLOTERDIJK: It reminds me of Thomas Hobbes’ famous meta- phor about life as a race. He said that constantly being overtaken is misery, while constantly overtaking others is felicity. For those standing in the culmination area, however, overtaking and being overtaken cease because such movements are only meaningful at the beginning of an optimization series and lose their purpose when the solution has been found. If people carry on after that, they have merely fallen into a habit.
But let me finish off the thought I started: I wanted to explain why I think the concept of progress is no longer right for expressing our experiences with modernization. We should replace it with two or three other concepts that correspond better to the meanings of the old concept of progress that are worth preserving. For the moment, I shall mention two such expressions: relief and density. The first term refers to the anthropologist Arnold Gehlen, and it is no exag- geration to say that, in my opinion, it represents the most important category of modern human science. It describes the basic direction of technical and social evolution in an astonishingly convincing way. Let’s suppose a supporter of progress had to explain where the progressive journey is going. Generally, we would hear the trivial but accurate response that we are moving towards a state in which things will be better than ever for human beings. What does ‘better’ mean? This comparative contains practically everything that can be described by the term ‘relief’. Where heavy weights once had to be carried, processes should be found to make things easier to handle. Of course, ‘heavy’ and ‘light’ are subjectively tinged expressions that don’t mean the same thing to everyone. Yet everyone understands what we mean by relief from the burdens of life.
To explain this from the technical angle, I am fond of quoting the history of touch-operated appliances. These are the everyday objects that most clearly demonstrate the technical change from heavy to light actions. In an earlier technical phase, ordinary tools usually had handles – as we know, a handle is a designated contact
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point between the hand and the instrument. Such tools were body extensions or organ extensions in the sense described by Marshall McLuhan, that is, they were direct continuations of the arm and the hand in a harder material. An axe with a helve was used to split wood for burning in the kitchen stove. In the world of tools with handles, actors still carried out most of the gestures useful for life with their own physical input – the angel of expulsion put it well when he spoke of the sweat of the brow without which one should not eat one’s bread. 1
Today we live in a world of touch-operated tools that are used completely differently – we press a button or flip a switch and the heat sources turn on by themselves. Another way to explain how technology brings relief is to point to the transition from gestures made with our whole hands to fingertip operations – a typical transi- tion for the present appliance scene. Now we move the world with a contact pressure of 5 to 10 grams, almost as little as we needed in the past to place the pick-up arm of a record player in the groove. Maybe that’s the most modest way to characterize the trend towards the technical way of handling reality, and the most dramatic at the same time. This is exactly where the concept of relief comes into play. Because it contains a description of a trend of transforming workers into users, it can borrow several meaningful aspects from the concept of progress, which has long since become too crude.
This is also where we should mention the history of analgesics. People today forget that up to the mid-nineteenth century surgical operations could not be performed without horribly maltreating the patient. The first effective anaesthetics came into use in the 1840s. If I remember rightly, the first successful operation under chloroform narcosis took place in a hospital in Massachusetts. One year later the new process had already become globalized. From then on the medicine sector in the Western world exploded, and surgery became a key focus of medicine. Doctors outdid priests in importance, not with the message ‘We’ll bring you enlightenment’, but with the offer: ‘We’ll anaesthetize you if necessary. We’ll relieve you of the burden of consciousness during operations, and while you are asleep we’ll repair what has to be repaired. ’ That’s what a progressive offer sounds like – and here ‘progressive’ is an exact synonym of ‘bring- ing relief’. This was followed by an important change in religious semantics during the last century: if life gets easier the demand for
1 The Bible, New International Version, Genesis 3:19: ‘By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return. ’
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redemption declines, and themes related to fulfilment and realiza- tion become more important.
The concept of relief has a second merit – it raises the question of who pays the costs of the relief, for the relief of one person must, by its nature, create a heavier burden for another, assuming one also calculates as an anthropologist using the principle of constancy in relation to the weight of the world. Such calculations are to be dis- closed and the shifts in pressure should be explained. If, for example, the majority of people in the Western world are no longer starving today, this is partly due to an unprecedented shifting of loads that occurred at the cost of farm animals. Mass animal farming has created an immense animal proletariat whose living conditions are scandalous, not only for conservatives.
NAKSCHBANDI: How is the concept of distribution of loads related to these transformations?
SLOTERDIJK: Distribution of the load is fundamental for the modern world because an intuitive and unconventional concept of justice depends on it. If we were to ask what real injustice is in the existential and non-juridical sense, a plausible answer could be: injustice means that some people have a very easy time and others a very hard time – and justice would describe the appro- priate equalizing measures. In this context, the concepts of load and relief show an internal relation to the theme of justice. One reason why the modern social system is attractive is that the state functions within it as a general guarantor of equalization. The seriously underestimated phenomenon of the tax state that was transformed into the welfare state during the twentieth century is related to this. Many people today are only vaguely aware that the state share of the gross national product amounts to 50 per cent and above in Germany and many other West European coun- tries. Hardly anybody can envisage what that means morally and psychologically. A good half of what the productive part of the population earns is absorbed by the fiscal authorities and put into a gigantic redistribution centrifuge, with the state and its servants not neglecting themselves, of course. In the year 2000, Germany’s gross national product amounted to 2 billion dollars, with over half of that going as booty to the public sector. Modern forms of life can evidently only be guaranteed by the state’s generalized kleptocracy. Just for once, we should look at things like this: if we looked at the welfare state’s redistribution performance merely from the quantitative angle we would be shocked and awed. The whole picture becomes almost incredible if we take into account the mirror distortions in the prevailing rhetorical systems. In popular commentaries, the relief systems are often described as if
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redistribution occurred upwards and as if our state increasingly leaves its ordinary citizens to die of hunger.
This distortion of the picture of the immense capital flows rechan- nelled by the state is partly conditioned by the political system being lost for words – as it no longer has any possibility of expressing itself, it borrows its vocabulary mainly from the economy that is understandably doomed to reproduce dissatisfaction all the time. This borrowing is devastating for the state because a subsystem of modern society can’t function if it doesn’t cultivate its own values. Citizens see the speechless state as a pseudo-entrepreneur, always blathering on about innovation and reform, and why? Because it can’t, it doesn’t want to, and it dares not speak openly about its real business, the fiscal kleptocracy and its justification through redistribution.
A second dimension of the concept of progress that traditional rhetoric can’t deal with adequately is the phenomenon of increasing density. A considerable part of what we have always called progress until now can be much better described as density. If we have the impression things are progressing in social terms, this is generally linked to an increase in density of transactions. Increased density means that in a particle system the number of possibilities of contact and collision increases. Consequently, in situations where progres- sive relationships dominate, the probability of collisions increases.
NAKSCHBANDI: It sounds dangerous . . .
SLOTERDIJK: It is really dangerous, and growing danger pro- vides a precise criterion for the degree of progress of relationships. It is not very easy to explain such twists to people who have simply supported progress. They wanted progress and what they got is complexity. The concept of complexity is associated with the news that nothing at all is simple any more. The term ‘density’ helps us to grasp such effects: countless particles, countless institutions, count- less enterprises, countless individuals are moving towards each other with growing intensity and are doing so in continually higher frequencies. The number of their contacts or collisions is growing exponentially. I read somewhere recently that 10 million emails per minute are sent all over the world, mostly in the industrialized zone. That figure makes 10 million traffic accidents per year, and the same number of private court cases, seem tame.
NAKSCHBANDI: What does this complexity mean for our lives in practical terms?
SLOTERDIJK: It means there is a growing need to simulate simplicity. The people who can master things well are the ones who can make complicated relationships simple. That is why mastery is the greatest asset modern individuals demand. The
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most popular simplification technique, as we know, is to ignore problems. Ignoring means seeing unsolved issues as resolved – that makes ignorance as a practical equivalent for superiority irresist- ible. Generally speaking, there’s an immense need for techniques for dealing with complexity. Today the greatest market of all is open for people who can offer effective simplifications. Of course, this is closely linked to relief.
Complexity increases the burden for problem-solvers and this, in turn, gives a new boost to relief techniques. This connection is the core of the so-called ‘knowledge society’. Knowledge that really interests us is always empowering knowledge that makes complex- ity amenable to handling. ‘Amenable to handling’ means things are processed so that we can make a profitable decision on the computer with our fingertips.
The concept of density also helps to explain why, despite the tremendous relief in which our life is embedded, we have the impres- sion that things aren’t getting easier, but on balance more difficult. For all the undeniable ‘progress’, why isn’t the world more trans- parent and more user-friendly? The increasing complexity is really unreasonable – and people will rebel against it sooner or later if they have expected something else. The most embittered critics of progress are disillusioned believers in progress. But if we start from a false concept, can we really complain when we realize it doesn’t work?
Aren’t we responsible ourselves for the disappointment that comes from choosing the confusing word ‘progress’ to guide us? If we don’t want to fall into a semantic trap, we should drop the term ‘progress’. We realize that we’re caught in such a trap partly because we become aware that using specific words puts us into defensive situations and depressive states. In that case it is better to look for a different kind of language.
NAKSCHBANDI: Can Western culture learn something about these questions from other cultures?
SLOTERDIJK: Most people in the Western world assume that the rest of the world has to learn from them, and not vice versa. In fact, we could learn a great deal from non-Western cultures: a different attitude to happiness, to death, to simple, elementary things. I think it is a serious symptom that in our society the simple things are being reintroduced as a second-order luxury. Though it may sound odd, there is a kind of homesickness for poverty and it is actually for the elementary things that may be associated with poorer circumstances. Our society displays a surfeit of wealth and of the multiple options we constantly have to think about. That’s why many Western people now are interested in the lifestyle of cultures that are on the verge of the transition to affluence. However, I think
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it is doubtful that we can really learn from this. In the end, learning something from other people means wanting an exchange with them and seeing them as a model. Western interests usually don’t go that far. Westerners are more likely to want something the others have in addition to their own advantages.
20
A TEAM OF HERMAPHRODITES
Interview with Dirk Kurbjuweit and Lothar Gorris*
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Mr Sloterdijk, how are you watch- ing the football World Cup championship – as a fan or as a philosopher? 1
SLOTERDIJK: I am actually more interested in the archaeology of masculinity. Football matches are atavistic; they are experimen- tal anthropological designs. For thousands of years, male human beings have tried to answer the question: what do we do with hunters nobody needs any more? In anthropological terms, men are constructed to take part in hunting. But hunters have undergone a huge sedation programme for nearly 7,000 years, since the begin- ning of arable farming. The higher the religion, the stronger the attempt was to convince the inner hunter that it is basically shame- ful to be a man, and that men as men will never partake of salvation.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Unless they play football and substi- tute the hunt for game animals with the hunt for goals?
SLOTERDIJK: That’s right. Hardly any other game so clearly imitates our ancient proto-artillerist feelings of successful hunting. When we have completely paralysed the inner hunter and killed him off, we reach the inevitable conclusion that the stupidest thing in the world is how footballers react after scoring a goal. It is a
* This interview between Peter Sloterdijk, Dirk Kurbjuweit and Lothar Gorris appeared under the title ‘Ein Team von Hermaphroditen’, in Der Spiegel news magazine (3 June 2006): 70ff.
At the time of the interview Dirk Kurbjuweit was a journalist at Der Spiegel, and Lothar Gorris was a departmental head at Der Spiegel.
1 The interview took place shortly before the World Cup football champi- onship held in Germany from 9 June to 9 July 2006.
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really obscene sight. The remarkable goal-shot orgasms the foot- ball players put on for the paying spectators are enough to make a female porn actor feel ashamed by comparison. But as soon as we stop murdering our inner hunter and let those ancient hunting feel- ings come out, we immediately feel what those players on the pitch are dealing with. The oldest human feelings of success are being played out again, the act of hitting a hunting target with a ballistic object, a target that tries to protect itself by every possible means. I think this is the point to introduce the concept of ‘deep play’. It describes the kind of games that enthral everybody.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: In other words, the prehistoric man within the man of today is mostly redundant, and only useful for playing games. Are women better off?
SLOTERDIJK: Women were originally gatherers and we need them more than ever today because a gatherer is only one step away from becoming a consumer. In this respect, women are much more compatible with capitalism than men. The female consumer still shows us traces of the quiet, triumphal satisfaction of the gatherer bringing something home in her basket. This has led to that mysteri- ous universal female object, the handbag. A man without a spear or a ball is acceptable, but a woman without a handbag – that’s against nature.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Does football excite you personally?
SLOTERDIJK: I found a passable relationship to football at the second attempt. But to become a normal human being I had to make a digression by way of anthropology. As an anthropologist I can allow myself to be human, so to speak. The basic characteristics of a human involve being willing to go crazy with other people to some extent. I allow myself to do that now and then in my old age.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Have you bought a Goleo? 2 SLOTERDIJK: I’m not the type for mascots. KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Do you sing along with the national
anthem?
SLOTERDIJK: I’m physiologically incapable of that. Sometimes
I watch the players during the anthem and see how they purse their lips, only moving them slightly. Some lapse into a deep German silence. That’s what I would probably do. I usually like singing, but only in an artistic form. Singing national anthems is not part of my basic education.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: The ‘national team’ is one of the
2 Goleo was a stuffed animal toy that became a media mascot of the 2006 Football World Cup in Germany.
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few terms that allows us to use the word ‘nation’. What does the national team represent for us Germans in particular?
SLOTERDIJK: First, it means the same as it does for every other modern nation that appoints its team to represent it. This results in representational rituals that the majority of the population want to participate in. We Germans are a special case in this respect – as in most others – because of our history. After 1918 and the Versailles Treaty, if not before, we became a wounded collective, and in need of revenge in some respects. After 1945, on the other hand, we became a collective that is afraid of our own revenge impulses and blanks them out. We are a bizarre group that can only experience internal cohesion in the regret mode.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: You have written that nations are communities of excitability. What can arouse a nation more than the World Cup in its own country? Lots of people still get queasy at the idea of Germany being excited.
SLOTERDIJK: Of course. If you have experienced collective excitement as ‘demonic territory’, to quote Thomas Mann, you are wary of everything that stimulates people. We have been like people who have burnt their fingers since the time we realized that collective arousal could actually be a product of specific political orchestration.
Such emotional liturgies are created by defined rules and, by nature, can be instrumentalized. The Saturday entertainment and the will to war are psychologically related. Enthusiasm proves to be a phenomenon that can be misused. That means we shouldn’t just see the German tendency to caution as a neurosis. It should be enough to point out that caution can also be morally misused. If, as a German, you have ever watched the English celebrate and sing anthems, you might automatically think fascism had made a diver- sion to the British Isles. We Germans have a teacher inside us that would like to propose a sobering-up programme made in Germany for other nations as well.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Excitement in Germany quickly gets ugly, as the controversy about Jürgen Klinsmann showed. 3 Why aren’t we able to trust the national coach and his team?
SLOTERDIJK: Trust is not a German option. We know what Lenin said: ‘Trust is good. Control is better. ’ The Germans reinter- pret that as: ‘Trust is good. Grumbling is better. ’ Our dear fellow citizens are incredibly keen to be disparaging. That’s why the
3 Former football player Jürgen Klinsmann was manager of the German national team for the 2006 World Cup championship.
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position of national coach in this country is even more uncomfort- able than in other countries. But it’s generally true that the national coach resembles a hunting-group leader and his successes affect the mood of the collective.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Do we grumble our last heroes into the ground?
SLOTERDIJK: We have no more heroes anyway. We’ve replaced them with stars.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: What distinguishes the star from the hero?
SLOTERDIJK: The hero dies early and the star outlives himself. That formulation gives us an overview of the field. Both are actu- ally destined for an early end – the hero on the battlefield where he falls and the star through his return to civilian life, which is equivalent to being released from service, and is consequently like a symbolic death. An early death wouldn’t be a bad thing for most sports people because they almost all become unpleasant after their careers. Even the most interesting athletes turn into dimwits if they carry on as sports functionaries. For the rest of their lives they do nothing but contradict the reasons why they became famous. They start brilliantly – and end in self-demolition. Achilles escaped that because he had a real showdown.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: It’s hard to detect the hunter in David Beckham or Ronaldinho, the stars of modern football.
SLOTERDIJK: Stars today have to live in a state of permanent over-exposure. They enjoy a passive privilege in relation to atten- tion: they are seen very often – and almost never see themselves. The answer to that is to become a model. The players who cope best with their roles as stars are those like Beckham who deliberately transfer to the fashion world. Somebody like that shows that the player has understood his own de-heroizing. It follows that it’s better to appear as a hermaphrodite than a male hero nowadays. The soccer models are following an evolutionary trend that has been observable since the 1960s: the trend towards hermaphrodization. This is a long-term movement in which men disarm and are discovered as clientele for cosmetic products.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Is the German national football team a team of hermaphrodites?
SLOTERDIJK: In principle, yes, although Klinsmann is resisting this. I think he didn’t throw Kuranyi out for his weak performance but because he was angry that he needed half an hour to shave his little beard. That’s an anti-hermaphroditic vote by Klinsmann, an anti-model protest.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Your colleague, the Berlin
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philosopher Gunter Gebauer, says: the game with the feet has always been a mute protest against scholarly culture.
SLOTERDIJK: I agree with that. One of the most fascinating questions of recent cultural history for me was this: why have we always regarded the Renaissance from the fifteenth to the nineteenth centuries only as the return of the literature and arts of antiquity? Any child knows that there was already a fascinating mass culture in antiquity, that of the original sports. But our classical Renaissance only recapitulated the things that catered to the pleasures of the upper class. There was a long delay until the most fascinating figures of antiquity, the athletes, were reinstated again alongside the artists, philosophers and scientists. The athletes only reappeared a hundred years ago, and since then they have dominated the scene. Their reappearance brings people’s thymotic impulses into full use once again. According to the basic psychological teachings of the ancient Greeks we not only have the eros, which makes us desire things, but also the thymos, which means our efforts to assert our own merits.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Do we show our merits today with skilful dribbling?
SLOTERDIJK: Among other things. We have finally dared really to quote ancient mass culture – which means the production of new competitive games. That’s why we have recently started building competition venues as in neo-antiquity – the Greek stadium and the Roman arena.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Why was the athlete rediscovered so late?
SLOTERDIJK: People probably felt it would be dangerous to play with that kind of energy. If the nation is allowed to gather in arenas it could easily become politically volatile. The new enclo- sures of mass culture were only erected when it became clear that those kinds of mass sporting events wouldn’t develop into revolu- tions. Antiquity bequeathed a perfect archetype for that – the arena with its rising steps. If we look at the most modern stadiums such as the Allianz arena in Munich, we realize immediately: this is the Coliseum again.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: In the modern arenas with their lounges and business areas, the sponsors and VIPs edge out the traditional fans.
SLOTERDIJK: This transformation follows a basic trend of developed capitalism: the transformation of the workers into players, into stock-exchange speculators. Typically, they are prepared to sever the link between performance and fee. We know approxi- mately what wages are because they are connected to performance. But today, wages are no longer enough. People want bonuses. The
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demand for bonuses is the current form of anticipated profit. This society naturally meets up in the stadium as well. They are among their own kind there. The people on the pitch are best buddies with those in the lounge. Everybody knows that it’s only about bonuses. We’re only gradually beginning to understand how dangerous that is, because we’re slowly being confronted with the demoralizing effects of the system. Incidentally, the postmodern stadium is a tough truth machine. Unlike in modern-day theatre, where only losers appear from the start and talk about their problems, getting more and more entangled, in the modern arena it’s always only about the desire for the primal verdict: victory or defeat.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Football is an extreme example of globalization. In some Bundesliga clubs hardly any of the players are German. In the Champions League final, Arsenal London fielded two English players and Barcelona three Spanish ones.
SLOTERDIJK: That final showed the game of two world-class selections that simulate local clubs. In other words, the football club and its city are transformed into locations in the same way as the cities as such are transformed into locations. In the era of globaliza- tion – that is, since 1492 – hometown has become location.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: If the Champions League is a contest of locations, what does that make the World Cup?
SLOTERDIJK: A restorative enterprise, actually. In a situation in which nations are swimming with the tide of post-nationalization, nations reposition themselves as nations for the sake of the champi- onship. It is rather regressive.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Why?
SLOTERDIJK: National teams hardly exist in reality beyond championships. In championships something like national simu- lators are represented. They remind a population that it can also identify in a national sense if it wants to.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: Does it work?
SLOTERDIJK: It works very well, because people’s sense of participation is chronically under-used otherwise. We don’t live in a world that addresses needs for participation. On the contrary, people always belong to themselves, and at best to their own future. For good measure we have a few relationships or, as people so aptly say, we’re linked up. But linked-up people are in a post-national situation anyway. People generally don’t want to be owned by the community any more. Civilization is moving towards dissolving communities, and for good reason: because self-confident indi- viduals find it increasingly hard to tolerate permanent pestering by groups they belong to. We don’t want to be representatives of our own tribe, or to have to represent our country abroad. All the same,
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there are situations in which we identify on a national basis again for a few hours.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: If the national factor is shown in the national team, wouldn’t it be logical to add a question to the form for new immigrants, such as: ‘Who played for Germany in the 1974 World Cup final? ’ Wouldn’t it prove how much somebody is inter- ested in this country?
SLOTERDIJK: Why not? In turn, the person questioned would also have to be given the possibility of proving with the converse answer that he or she belongs here. Up until now, the bad Germans were the good Germans – we should allow foreigners to be the same as well. Immigrants should have the freedom to say, ‘I’m a bad patriot, that’s why I fit in here. I can do without the gang of Beckenbauer and Co. 4 I think the sport is idiotic and I’d prefer us to lose. That gives me the right to be a member of this nation. ’
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: But should immigrants know about the miracle of Bern?
SLOTERDIJK: There could be a question like: ‘What bores you most? ’ If somebody puts a cross by the miracle of Bern, he or she would be a case for the alien police department. Anybody who doubts the miracle of Bern is suspected of being associated with a terrorist organization.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: How do you explain the hysteri- cal glorification that the 1954 soccer world championship title unleashed here in Germany?
SLOTERDIJK: It is mainly related to the intellectualization of football. For as long as research on mass culture has existed, popular culture as a whole has been idealized. This research was, and still is, a refuge for those who survived neo-Marxism and looked for new fields of work after its demise. The topic of soccer provided a way to remain true to the interests of the proletariat. All it required was to formulate upscale interpretations of trivial events.
KURBJUWEIT/GORRIS: What do you remember of those events in 1954?
SLOTERDIJK: I was a child in Munich at the time. One day my mother, who wasn’t interested in football at all, took me by the hand, and we rushed off to Prinzregentenstrasse, the place where the German team appeared to the fans after winning in Bern. That’s how I saw Fritz Walter with the cup. When my mother started
4 Franz Beckenbauer, a former German football player and national German team manager, is regarded as one of the greatest living football players.
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saying she wanted to leave, I felt something had upset her. Perhaps it reminded her of the days in the Nazi German Girls’ League when they were supposed to feel proud of the state. In every other respect she was the most apolitical person I have ever met. Of course, I didn’t understand anything at all. I only noticed all the grown-ups behaving very strangely and being enthusiastic for a reason that was completely obscure to me.