7, 8
to surrender it (M.
to surrender it (M.
Demosthenese - First Philippic and the Olynthiacs
npdrspov goes with "agile" as well as with napaxpoud-
paves. With the latter cp. 6 ? ? 23, 36 ; 20 ? ? 74, 97. nsrfim-ai
Tofivo/ia. are 106 la'rdv'ras TL ii [Lerpoiivras Kpoziew Ta ,ue? rpa Kai
fiiaaei'siv gVEKfl. 100 WhSOVEKT? iV (Harpocr. ) Myas ni'ag'lfl'q:
proleptic as in ? 8 11,0017 ne? yas, cp. 1 ? 28.
? 6 l. 51. w? 6$p(a) goes with daeflepbv . . Kai Qaupafldv,
separated from the latter for emphasis, as in Lys. 13 ? 44
o? 65pa {will e? heei'u wpoaflKei 'Aybpa'rov. o? 65pa ? oflspe? v would
have involved the juxtaposition of three short syllables.
53. re. Stxaw. 1rpdn~rov(-ra) is subordinate to mlgnpe'vov.
54. Oeupaw Kal- o'Ko-Irfiiv : 4 ? 3. septa-K0) (<I>[)\? 1r1rov)
rpomyaye? psvov rfiv--efifiQetav ervxew--Kal-- Kama-Kend-
d'fl-l- : the Dot. of the Inf. is here placed first and is resumed by
its antecedent 7061' , as in 6 ? 22, 8 ? 56, 9 ? 5, 17, 18. (59) ri|v
-4>|. Mav and (62) mahoiis are (like 'r'ilv--efifiQetav) dependent
on wpovayaye? psvov. (54) finere? pav, more conciliatory than
nae--re? pav, eefiOeww. On the other hand, where the power of the
people is concerned, we have in l. 56 the defer-ential pronoun
{will diahexflfivai.
55. 'OhuvBfious dwfihawov (9 ? 66 and 18 ? 82 rpe? afleis
dmfiiuwc) : 357 11. 0.
56. e? v9? v$e, 'from this platform. ' \'ipiv StakeXQfivat:
24 ? 48 To)" Mpg: diahexfiijuai, and 19 ? 304.
57. 'AMCrohw--wapaSe? o'cw: [7] ? 27 (Philip) 11'7'9 e? -iri-
o'rohfis, fir we; iii/. 61: g'Il'Glll/lfl! b'r' 'A/uphroiuv e? 'lroXiopKei, e? vriile? -
ivqo'rai, e'v dipohe? 'yei 'r-i7v 'A/iqfihrohw iiacre? pav elvai' ? ? 17 yap
? ? Generated for (University of Chicago) on 2014-12-27 05:10 GMT / http://hdl. handle. net/2027/uc1. 31175009758841 Public Domain, Google-digitized / http://www. hathitrust. org/access_use#pd-google
? II ? ? 6, 7 SEOOND OLYNTHIAO 161
e? KrthopKfio'as 1)va drofiu'm'eiv 1119 01700. 11 flan-{pail Kai 01'! 1631/
e? xe? vrwu, 23 ? 116. Grote c. 86 vii 645.
58. Ta Opohofip? v6v 1ro'r' 6. 1r6pp'q'rov, ' the secret article which
gave rise to so much gossip' in political circles. It was only
known that there was a secret understanding, but its terms were
unknown, and this only increased the amount of talk about it.
This 'secret article' referred to a proposed surrender of Pydna.
to Philip in exchange for Amphipolis. 6. 1r6ppq'rov, ' a state
secret'; cp. 1 ? 4, Aristoph. Eq. 648, Aeschin. 3 ? 96 wpdieis
wpdrrew e? re? pas 51' droppfirwv. ('rq'i) Ka-rao'xeudo'au parallel
to up. . duio-Kew: the verb is often applied to underhand
devices ; 52 ? 2 diafifixas 5061156: Kano-Kevalcb-res, 45 ? 5 ,unxavii-rac
Kal Karaoxeudfei 10. 13111, 21 ? 134 etc.
Theopompus (quoted by Photius p. 588) ml. ne'mrovm 1rpr MMmrov
rpsvflsu'rd; 'Av-rirpdwra. KG-l- Xapivsnuov updgov-ras xal wept ? Ll\l:4li, o'i. nape. -
yevo'psvoi a-uawsi'flew aI'J-rbv 5'er slpovv 5 v dwnppfi'rzp owl-rrpa'i-r'rew 'Aflnvaioig,
61m; av AdBwo-w 'Aaqti-rrokw v-rrio'xvoflaevol. IIfiSvav' cl 6% npe? rrfleu; oi. 115v
'Aonvaimv cl; "Ev Tbv dfipwv ofide? v almjyszov, flovho'yevm havodvew foil;
Huovmi'ous 61:81. 86an ne'Movres 115106;, 5v dm'gipfirrg 85 'LETti Tris Bouhfig
s'wparrov. Grcte c. 86 vii 665 f, ASchaefer ii 20 .
'Assuming that these negotiations took place, a fact that is not doubted
by modern writers, then Athens was more to blame than Philip, for
Philip betrayed no one, while Athens betrayed the trust reposed in her
by Pydna,' Holm Gk. Hist. iii 0. 15 note 8.
59. wpocayayopevov: Thuc. iii 43, 2 dmiry rpoad-yea'fiai Ta
1007009.
? 71. 60. Ho-refSamv K'rh. : 356 13. 0. ; cp. 1 ? 12.
61. e? geheiv, 'to take completely,' or 'by storm,' expugna're ;
or 'to destroy,' 'i'aze'; 8 ? 44, 23 ? 115, Thuc. iii 113, 6,
viii 46, 3. The latter is probably the meaning here.
The fact that Poteidaea was handed over to the Olynthians (l. 62) makes
it doubtful at first sight whether its destruction was complete. Diodorus
xvi 8 simply says rbv BE miAw e'favdpunoded-yevoq, but the excerpts of
Gemistus Plethon 1, 15 add mt same-Kai us, while the schol. on Dem. 6
? 20 adds Kai than; instead. It was re 11ilt by Cassander in 316 11. 0.
(ASchaefer ii 252 n. 1).
o'vppdxovs: the Poteidaeans (schol. ) There was no alliance
between Philip and Athens, but only between Philip and the
Athenians resident in Poteidaea, [7] ? 10. The addition of
was in many of the mss implies that vuaadxous was supposed
to refer to the Athenians, to whom Philip had offered alliance
in 359 13. 0. (23 ? 121).
62. wupaaoiivm. Horeioaiav 'Ohvv0lois 2 6 ? 20, 23 ? 107. The
site alone is probably meant. @swakoivs: 1 ? 12.
63. Mayv'qa'fcw tapase? o'ew: so far from surrendering
Magnesia, Philip began to fortify it (1 ? 22). He only qfi'e'red
M
? ? Generated for (University of Chicago) on 2014-12-27 05:10 GMT / http://hdl. handle. net/2027/uc1. 31175009758841 Public Domain, Google-digitized / http://www. hathitrust. org/access_use#pd-google
? 162 SECOND OLYNTHIAO' II ? ?
7, 8
to surrender it (M. e? fiioov, 6 ? 22) in 346 13. 0. , at the close of
the Phocian war.
64. 16v @omueov wohqmv : 1 ? 26; 355--46 11. 0.
The Phocians ' had laid themselves open to a charge of sacrilege, having
taken into cultivation a portion of the fruitful plain (of Cirrha), which
had been doomed by the decree of the Amphictyons in the first Sacred
War to lie for ever waste . . Thebes did not put herself forward, but
probably instigated some of the Thesscdi'mr members of the council to
prosecute the Phocians for this ofl'ence' Thirlwall v 265. Philip ulti-
mately fulfilled the promise to the Thessalians recorded in the text by
bringing the Phocian war to an end in 346 13. 0.
65. thus, 'in short. ' See also 1. 127.
67. Enid-raw . . dd, 'cvery people in tum,' 1 ? 9; Plato
Gory. 464 D 1Q Be' del 'hdlorq: anefieral. 11'11' fill/ow. " Kal
e? gmrare? . dvomv, 'infatuation'; more mildly termed
ei'nfiOaa. when the orator's own countrymen are concerned,
1. 55.
68. npowhapfidev, ' winning over,' 'gaining over,' 'tnrning
to his own use,' Aeschin. 3 ? 126 wpoahaflcbv 1'1711 100 'ypdillavros
dreiplav. Cp. 1. 59 rpooa'ya'ybnevov.
69. others sums up the sense of the two preceding participles.
? 8 l. 69. Suzi. 'rm'nwv: either masc. e? Kdova . . 'rt'bu d'yvo-
oiiv-rwr (101-611, mentioned again in the next clause, #Kair-ror (so
Rehdantz and others), or (more probably) neut. (so Heslop).
The latter is confirmed by 6161 100 afi-rofi in Thucydides quoted
below, also by the neut. in of: . . 170M011 in ? 5 (l. 48), and by
61' 6:11 and 616. 1029er in ? 26. Cp. Aristot. Eth. N. ii 1, 6
('K Tin! 0. 171651! Kai 5181. T511 1115161! Kai 'ylveTaL 1riio'o dper'i) Kai
? 0elpcraz. In 3 ? 31, however, find new is certainly masc.
70. '5qu ue? yas : ? 5 news 11175-4011. For the sense cp. Thuc.
vi 11, 3 Q) yap 8. 11 'rpb1rrp T'ifll fine-re? pav (dpx'hv) p. 616. Heho'lrov-
vnolwv d? e? hwvrau eiKbs 01rd T611 afrer mi 1671/ o? sre? pau 5rd 1017
ai'rroi; Kafiarpefifivat.
71. Mastha: Aesch. Frag. 456 Nsuck optimer 'ydp TOL Kai
1ra0eiv 6? el)\e'rar, Soph. Frag. 209 To>> 5pc'5wa--695elhe1'at.
72. inas'fi, 'now that,' as in 1 ? 7, not 'since,' for which
e? 1rel is used in 4 ? ? 2, 25. e? reififi is ambiguous in 4 ? 1. e? -lreuS-ii
also occurs in 5 ? 8, 8 ? ? 1, 40 ; 9 ? ? 6, 24 bis, 57, 64, 72, etc. ;
in all 196 times in temporal sense (including 111 Aor. , 55
Imperf. , 13 Perf. , 17 Pluperf. , 3 Pres. Ind), 76 times in causal
sense (including 30 Pres, 13 Iniperfi, 18 Aor. , 7 Perf. Ind. )
? 1rel causal predominates over e? -zrel temporal, except in Herod.
(64 z 435) and Xen. (117 : 800). In Demosthenes the exx. are
54 : 9 (Zycha Wiener Studie'n. vii 84, 106).
? ? Generated for (University of Chicago) on 2014-12-27 05:10 GMT / http://hdl. handle. net/2027/uc1. 31175009758841 Public Domain, Google-digitized / http://www. hathitrust. org/access_use#pd-google
? II ? ? 8, 9 SECOND 0L YNTHIAC' 163
73. 1'0th e? gehfith-rat: Goodwin II! T. ? 687. Kalpoi:
emphatic, dependent on 1rpos 10010, with which cp. 1 ? 8.
75. fl ('0r,' 'else ') nupekOe? v--Setgd'm: 3 ? 28 '8 ? powdrw
'ns 6,11,02 rpoaewdw. Up. and (=el 6e? #16) in Cic. dc Fin. iv 72
(mt doceat. It is clearly different to the ordinary use of i},
found thrice in the rest of the sentence: (76) fl J's--M70, fl
x-rk, i. e. 'eithcr that my facts (? ? 6, 7) are untrue, or my
inferences wrong. '
79. SeSovhupe? vou: the Thessalians are of course meant,
though they cannot be mentioned in a generalised statement.
Some (e. g. Franke) regard the implied 'enslavement' of the
Thessalians as an exaggeration ; but dovhela is the regular term
for 'political subjection,' which is here intended. Thuc. i 8, 4,
ii 63, 1, v 69, 1 (Heslop). (J's) . . oi'm Ev . . ye? vowflo):
potential Opt. , not suggesting any definite condition (Goodwin
MT. ? 236). The mood and tense of the Opt. with dv are
unafi'ected by indirect discourse with 03s or (in (ib. ? 681).
? 9 1. 82. Kaee? fiew--rd. npdypa-ra, 'will maintain his
power. '
83. 'rd. mefio. ('forts,' or 'fortified places,' such as Pydna,
Poteidaea, Methone). Kul. Mue? vas (in Thessaly, 1 ? 22, e. g.
Pagasae). For the omission of the Article cp. 23 ? 70 rolls
"ye'ypa/me? vous venous Kai d'ypacpa ve?
paves. With the latter cp. 6 ? ? 23, 36 ; 20 ? ? 74, 97. nsrfim-ai
Tofivo/ia. are 106 la'rdv'ras TL ii [Lerpoiivras Kpoziew Ta ,ue? rpa Kai
fiiaaei'siv gVEKfl. 100 WhSOVEKT? iV (Harpocr. ) Myas ni'ag'lfl'q:
proleptic as in ? 8 11,0017 ne? yas, cp. 1 ? 28.
? 6 l. 51. w? 6$p(a) goes with daeflepbv . . Kai Qaupafldv,
separated from the latter for emphasis, as in Lys. 13 ? 44
o? 65pa {will e? heei'u wpoaflKei 'Aybpa'rov. o? 65pa ? oflspe? v would
have involved the juxtaposition of three short syllables.
53. re. Stxaw. 1rpdn~rov(-ra) is subordinate to mlgnpe'vov.
54. Oeupaw Kal- o'Ko-Irfiiv : 4 ? 3. septa-K0) (<I>[)\? 1r1rov)
rpomyaye? psvov rfiv--efifiQetav ervxew--Kal-- Kama-Kend-
d'fl-l- : the Dot. of the Inf. is here placed first and is resumed by
its antecedent 7061' , as in 6 ? 22, 8 ? 56, 9 ? 5, 17, 18. (59) ri|v
-4>|. Mav and (62) mahoiis are (like 'r'ilv--efifiQetav) dependent
on wpovayaye? psvov. (54) finere? pav, more conciliatory than
nae--re? pav, eefiOeww. On the other hand, where the power of the
people is concerned, we have in l. 56 the defer-ential pronoun
{will diahexflfivai.
55. 'OhuvBfious dwfihawov (9 ? 66 and 18 ? 82 rpe? afleis
dmfiiuwc) : 357 11. 0.
56. e? v9? v$e, 'from this platform. ' \'ipiv StakeXQfivat:
24 ? 48 To)" Mpg: diahexfiijuai, and 19 ? 304.
57. 'AMCrohw--wapaSe? o'cw: [7] ? 27 (Philip) 11'7'9 e? -iri-
o'rohfis, fir we; iii/. 61: g'Il'Glll/lfl! b'r' 'A/uphroiuv e? 'lroXiopKei, e? vriile? -
ivqo'rai, e'v dipohe? 'yei 'r-i7v 'A/iqfihrohw iiacre? pav elvai' ? ? 17 yap
? ? Generated for (University of Chicago) on 2014-12-27 05:10 GMT / http://hdl. handle. net/2027/uc1. 31175009758841 Public Domain, Google-digitized / http://www. hathitrust. org/access_use#pd-google
? II ? ? 6, 7 SEOOND OLYNTHIAO 161
e? KrthopKfio'as 1)va drofiu'm'eiv 1119 01700. 11 flan-{pail Kai 01'! 1631/
e? xe? vrwu, 23 ? 116. Grote c. 86 vii 645.
58. Ta Opohofip? v6v 1ro'r' 6. 1r6pp'q'rov, ' the secret article which
gave rise to so much gossip' in political circles. It was only
known that there was a secret understanding, but its terms were
unknown, and this only increased the amount of talk about it.
This 'secret article' referred to a proposed surrender of Pydna.
to Philip in exchange for Amphipolis. 6. 1r6ppq'rov, ' a state
secret'; cp. 1 ? 4, Aristoph. Eq. 648, Aeschin. 3 ? 96 wpdieis
wpdrrew e? re? pas 51' droppfirwv. ('rq'i) Ka-rao'xeudo'au parallel
to up. . duio-Kew: the verb is often applied to underhand
devices ; 52 ? 2 diafifixas 5061156: Kano-Kevalcb-res, 45 ? 5 ,unxavii-rac
Kal Karaoxeudfei 10. 13111, 21 ? 134 etc.
Theopompus (quoted by Photius p. 588) ml. ne'mrovm 1rpr MMmrov
rpsvflsu'rd; 'Av-rirpdwra. KG-l- Xapivsnuov updgov-ras xal wept ? Ll\l:4li, o'i. nape. -
yevo'psvoi a-uawsi'flew aI'J-rbv 5'er slpovv 5 v dwnppfi'rzp owl-rrpa'i-r'rew 'Aflnvaioig,
61m; av AdBwo-w 'Aaqti-rrokw v-rrio'xvoflaevol. IIfiSvav' cl 6% npe? rrfleu; oi. 115v
'Aonvaimv cl; "Ev Tbv dfipwv ofide? v almjyszov, flovho'yevm havodvew foil;
Huovmi'ous 61:81. 86an ne'Movres 115106;, 5v dm'gipfirrg 85 'LETti Tris Bouhfig
s'wparrov. Grcte c. 86 vii 665 f, ASchaefer ii 20 .
'Assuming that these negotiations took place, a fact that is not doubted
by modern writers, then Athens was more to blame than Philip, for
Philip betrayed no one, while Athens betrayed the trust reposed in her
by Pydna,' Holm Gk. Hist. iii 0. 15 note 8.
59. wpocayayopevov: Thuc. iii 43, 2 dmiry rpoad-yea'fiai Ta
1007009.
? 71. 60. Ho-refSamv K'rh. : 356 13. 0. ; cp. 1 ? 12.
61. e? geheiv, 'to take completely,' or 'by storm,' expugna're ;
or 'to destroy,' 'i'aze'; 8 ? 44, 23 ? 115, Thuc. iii 113, 6,
viii 46, 3. The latter is probably the meaning here.
The fact that Poteidaea was handed over to the Olynthians (l. 62) makes
it doubtful at first sight whether its destruction was complete. Diodorus
xvi 8 simply says rbv BE miAw e'favdpunoded-yevoq, but the excerpts of
Gemistus Plethon 1, 15 add mt same-Kai us, while the schol. on Dem. 6
? 20 adds Kai than; instead. It was re 11ilt by Cassander in 316 11. 0.
(ASchaefer ii 252 n. 1).
o'vppdxovs: the Poteidaeans (schol. ) There was no alliance
between Philip and Athens, but only between Philip and the
Athenians resident in Poteidaea, [7] ? 10. The addition of
was in many of the mss implies that vuaadxous was supposed
to refer to the Athenians, to whom Philip had offered alliance
in 359 13. 0. (23 ? 121).
62. wupaaoiivm. Horeioaiav 'Ohvv0lois 2 6 ? 20, 23 ? 107. The
site alone is probably meant. @swakoivs: 1 ? 12.
63. Mayv'qa'fcw tapase? o'ew: so far from surrendering
Magnesia, Philip began to fortify it (1 ? 22). He only qfi'e'red
M
? ? Generated for (University of Chicago) on 2014-12-27 05:10 GMT / http://hdl. handle. net/2027/uc1. 31175009758841 Public Domain, Google-digitized / http://www. hathitrust. org/access_use#pd-google
? 162 SECOND OLYNTHIAO' II ? ?
7, 8
to surrender it (M. e? fiioov, 6 ? 22) in 346 13. 0. , at the close of
the Phocian war.
64. 16v @omueov wohqmv : 1 ? 26; 355--46 11. 0.
The Phocians ' had laid themselves open to a charge of sacrilege, having
taken into cultivation a portion of the fruitful plain (of Cirrha), which
had been doomed by the decree of the Amphictyons in the first Sacred
War to lie for ever waste . . Thebes did not put herself forward, but
probably instigated some of the Thesscdi'mr members of the council to
prosecute the Phocians for this ofl'ence' Thirlwall v 265. Philip ulti-
mately fulfilled the promise to the Thessalians recorded in the text by
bringing the Phocian war to an end in 346 13. 0.
65. thus, 'in short. ' See also 1. 127.
67. Enid-raw . . dd, 'cvery people in tum,' 1 ? 9; Plato
Gory. 464 D 1Q Be' del 'hdlorq: anefieral. 11'11' fill/ow. " Kal
e? gmrare? . dvomv, 'infatuation'; more mildly termed
ei'nfiOaa. when the orator's own countrymen are concerned,
1. 55.
68. npowhapfidev, ' winning over,' 'gaining over,' 'tnrning
to his own use,' Aeschin. 3 ? 126 wpoahaflcbv 1'1711 100 'ypdillavros
dreiplav. Cp. 1. 59 rpooa'ya'ybnevov.
69. others sums up the sense of the two preceding participles.
? 8 l. 69. Suzi. 'rm'nwv: either masc. e? Kdova . . 'rt'bu d'yvo-
oiiv-rwr (101-611, mentioned again in the next clause, #Kair-ror (so
Rehdantz and others), or (more probably) neut. (so Heslop).
The latter is confirmed by 6161 100 afi-rofi in Thucydides quoted
below, also by the neut. in of: . . 170M011 in ? 5 (l. 48), and by
61' 6:11 and 616. 1029er in ? 26. Cp. Aristot. Eth. N. ii 1, 6
('K Tin! 0. 171651! Kai 5181. T511 1115161! Kai 'ylveTaL 1riio'o dper'i) Kai
? 0elpcraz. In 3 ? 31, however, find new is certainly masc.
70. '5qu ue? yas : ? 5 news 11175-4011. For the sense cp. Thuc.
vi 11, 3 Q) yap 8. 11 'rpb1rrp T'ifll fine-re? pav (dpx'hv) p. 616. Heho'lrov-
vnolwv d? e? hwvrau eiKbs 01rd T611 afrer mi 1671/ o? sre? pau 5rd 1017
ai'rroi; Kafiarpefifivat.
71. Mastha: Aesch. Frag. 456 Nsuck optimer 'ydp TOL Kai
1ra0eiv 6? el)\e'rar, Soph. Frag. 209 To>> 5pc'5wa--695elhe1'at.
72. inas'fi, 'now that,' as in 1 ? 7, not 'since,' for which
e? 1rel is used in 4 ? ? 2, 25. e? reififi is ambiguous in 4 ? 1. e? -lreuS-ii
also occurs in 5 ? 8, 8 ? ? 1, 40 ; 9 ? ? 6, 24 bis, 57, 64, 72, etc. ;
in all 196 times in temporal sense (including 111 Aor. , 55
Imperf. , 13 Perf. , 17 Pluperf. , 3 Pres. Ind), 76 times in causal
sense (including 30 Pres, 13 Iniperfi, 18 Aor. , 7 Perf. Ind. )
? 1rel causal predominates over e? -zrel temporal, except in Herod.
(64 z 435) and Xen. (117 : 800). In Demosthenes the exx. are
54 : 9 (Zycha Wiener Studie'n. vii 84, 106).
? ? Generated for (University of Chicago) on 2014-12-27 05:10 GMT / http://hdl. handle. net/2027/uc1. 31175009758841 Public Domain, Google-digitized / http://www. hathitrust. org/access_use#pd-google
? II ? ? 8, 9 SECOND 0L YNTHIAC' 163
73. 1'0th e? gehfith-rat: Goodwin II! T. ? 687. Kalpoi:
emphatic, dependent on 1rpos 10010, with which cp. 1 ? 8.
75. fl ('0r,' 'else ') nupekOe? v--Setgd'm: 3 ? 28 '8 ? powdrw
'ns 6,11,02 rpoaewdw. Up. and (=el 6e? #16) in Cic. dc Fin. iv 72
(mt doceat. It is clearly different to the ordinary use of i},
found thrice in the rest of the sentence: (76) fl J's--M70, fl
x-rk, i. e. 'eithcr that my facts (? ? 6, 7) are untrue, or my
inferences wrong. '
79. SeSovhupe? vou: the Thessalians are of course meant,
though they cannot be mentioned in a generalised statement.
Some (e. g. Franke) regard the implied 'enslavement' of the
Thessalians as an exaggeration ; but dovhela is the regular term
for 'political subjection,' which is here intended. Thuc. i 8, 4,
ii 63, 1, v 69, 1 (Heslop). (J's) . . oi'm Ev . . ye? vowflo):
potential Opt. , not suggesting any definite condition (Goodwin
MT. ? 236). The mood and tense of the Opt. with dv are
unafi'ected by indirect discourse with 03s or (in (ib. ? 681).
? 9 1. 82. Kaee? fiew--rd. npdypa-ra, 'will maintain his
power. '
83. 'rd. mefio. ('forts,' or 'fortified places,' such as Pydna,
Poteidaea, Methone). Kul. Mue? vas (in Thessaly, 1 ? 22, e. g.
Pagasae). For the omission of the Article cp. 23 ? 70 rolls
"ye'ypa/me? vous venous Kai d'ypacpa ve?
