No More Learning

= I pray you neuer speake of any repentance.

=Ma. = Peraduenture you shoulde otherwise esteme of me, when eyther age
or sicknesse shall chaunge this fourme or fauour.

=Pam. = Why? this body of myne (O my déere) shall not alwayes continue
in this estate, thus prest and lustie, but I respect not so muche this
flourishing and bewtifull house, as I doe him that dwelleth therein.

=Maria. = What meane you by that you speak of him that dwelleth within?

=Pam. = Verily, I meane your well disposed and vertuous minde, whose
beawtie alwayes encreaseth with age.

=Ma. = What, your sight is yet more pleasant than _Linx_, if you can
espie that, through so many couerings.

=Pam. = Yea certes with my mind I doe right well espie your minde:
moreouer (I saye) in those children which God shall sende vs, wée
shall as it were, ware yong againe.

=Maria. = But in the meane time virginitie is lost.

=Pam. = Truth, in good faith, tell me if you had a goodly orchyarde
plat, whether woulde you with nothing should therein grow but
blossomes, or else had you rather (the blossomes fallen awaye) beholde
your trées fraught and laden with pleasaunt fruite?

=Maria. = Howe sliely he reasoneth.

=Pam. = At the least aunswere me to this: whether is it a better sight
for a Vine to lye vppon the grounde and rot, or the same to embrace a
poale, or an elme, and lode it full with purple grapes?

=Maria. = Now sir aunswere me to this againe, whether is it a more
pleasant sight a Rose trim and milkewhite, yet growing on his stalk,
or the same plucked with the hande, and by little and little withering
awaye?

=Pam. = Certes in mine opinion the rose is the happiest, and commeth to
the better ende, which withereth and dieth in the hande of man,
delighting in the meane while both the eies and nosethrils, than
thother which withereth on the bush, for there muste it néedes wither
also at length, euen as that wine hath better luck which is drunken,
than that which standeth still, and is turned into vinigar. And yet
the flowring beautie of a woman doth not decay forthwith as soone as
she is maried, for I knowe some my selfe, who before they were maried,
were pale colored, faint, and as it were pined away, who by the
friendly felowship of an husband, haue wared so faire, and
welfauoured, that you would think they neuer came to the flower of
their beautie till then.

=Ma. = But for all your saying, virginity is a thing much beloued and
lyked with all men.

=Pam. = I graunt you, a yong woman, a virgine, is a fayre, & goodly
thing, but what by course of kind is more vnseemly thā an old wrinkled
maide: Had not your mother bene contented to lose that flower of hir
virginitie, surely we had not had this flower of your beautie. So that
in case (as I hope) our mariage be not barren, for the losse of one
virgine we shall paye God manye.

=Ma. = But they saye chastitie is a thing wherein God is much
delighted.

=Pam. = And therefore doe I desire to couple my selfe in mariage with a
chast mayden, that with hir I may leade a chaste life. As for our
mariage it shall rather be a mariage of our minds, than of our bodies,
we shall increase vnto Christ, we shall increase vnto the cōmon welth.
How little shall this matrimonie differ frō virginitie? & peraduenture
hereafter we shall so liue togither, as blessed Marie liued with
Joseph, no man cometh at the first to perfection.

=Maria. = What is that I heard you say euen now, must virginity be
violated and lost, therby to learn chastitie?

=Pam. = Whye not, euen as by drinking of wine moderately, we learn by
little and little to forbeare wine vtterlye, which of these two
seemeth vnto thée to be more temperat, he that sitting in the mids of
many daintie dishes, abstaineth from them all, or he which forbeareth
intemperauncie, hauing none occasiō to moue him vnto the same?

=Ma. = I suppose him to haue the more confirmed habite of temperance
whom plentie alwayes prest can not corrupt.

=Pam. = Whether deserueth more the prayse of chastitie, he that
geldeth him selfe, or he which kéeping his members all and sounde
abstaineth from all womans companie?

=Ma. = Verily by my consent the latter shal haue the praise of
chastitie, that other of mad follie.

=Pam. = Why? those which by vowe haue abiured matrimonye doe they not
after a sort gelde themselues?

=Maria. = Verily it séemeth so.

=Pam. = Thus you sée, it is no vertue to forbeare womens companie.

=Maria. = Is it no vertue?

=Pam. = Marke me this, if it were simplye a vertue to forbeare the
companie of a woman, then shoulde it be also a vice to vse the
companie of a woman, but sometime it befalleth that it is sin to
refuse the acte, and a vertue to vse it.

=Ma. = In what case is it so?

=Pam. = In case the husband requireth of his wife the debt of marriage,
euen so often as he shall do it, especially if he requireth it for the
desire of generation.

=Ma. = But what if he be fleshfond and wanton, may she not lawfully
denie it him?

=Pam. = She maye admonish him of his fault and rather gently perswade
him to bridle hys affections, to giue him a flat nay when he
straineth vpon hir, she may not. Albeit I here verie fewe men
complaine of their wyfes vncurtesie this way.

=Ma. = Yet mée thinks libertie is swéete.

=Pam. = Nay rather virginitie is a heauie burthen. I shall be to you a
King, and you shall be to me a Quéene. And eyther of vs shall rule the
familie, as we thinke good, take you thys to be a bondage?

=Ma. = The common sort calleth mariage an halter.

=Pam. = Now on my fayth they are well worthie an halter that so termeth
it. Tell me I praye you is not your soule bounde vnto your body?

=Ma. = I thinke so.

=Pam. = Yea surely euen as a bird vnto hir cage, & yet if ye should
aske him the question, whether he would bée loosed or no, I suppose he
would saye nay. And why so? bicause he is willinglie and gladlie
bounde therevnto.

=Ma. = We haue little to take to neither of vs both.

=Pam. = So much the lesse indaungered to fortune are wee, that little
you shall encrease at home wyth sauing, which as they counteruayleth a
great reuenue, and I abroad with diligence.

=Ma. = An houshold of children bringeth innumerable cares.

=Pam. = On the other side agayne, the same children bringeth infinite
pleasures, and oftentimes requiteth the parentes naturall paines to
the vttermost, with great ouerplusse.

=Ma. = Then to lead a barren life in marriage is a great miserie.

=Pam. = Why are you not now barraine? tell me whether had ye rather
neuer be borne, or borne to die.

=Ma. = Certes I had rather be borne to die.

=Pam. = So that barrainnesse is yet more miserable which neyther hadde,
nor shall haue child, euen as they be more happie which haue alreadie
lyued, then they which neuer haue, nor shall hereafter be borne to
liue.

=Ma. = And what be those, I praye you which neyther are, nor shall be.

=Pam. = For he that cannot finde in his hart to suffer and abide the
chaunges, & chaunces, whervnto all we indifferently be subiect, as
well men of poore estate, as Kings, & Emperours, he is not to dwell
here, let him get him out of this worlde. And yet, whatsoeuer shal
mischaunce vnto vs two, yours shoulde be but the one halfe thereof,
the greater parte I will alwaies take vnto mine owne selfe. So that if
anie good thing doe happen vnto vs oure pleasure shall be dubble if
anye euill betide vs, you shall haue but the one halfe of the griefe,
and I the other. As for my selfe, if God so woulde, it were vnto me a
pleasure, euen to ende my life in your armes.

=Ma. = Men can better sustaine and beare with y^t which chaunceth
according to the common course and rule of nature. For I sée that some
parentes are more troubled wyth their childrens euill manners, than
with their naturall deathes.

=Pam. = To preuent such misfortune, that it happen not vnto vs, it
resteth for the most part in our power.

=Ma. = How so?

=Pam. = For commonly parentes, which bée good and vertuous, haue good &
vertuous children, I meane as concerning their natural disposition,
for doues do not hatch Puthockes: wherefore we will first indeuour to
bée good our selues, and oure next care shall bée, that our children
may euen from the mothers brest, be seasoned with vertuous counsails,
and right opinions, for it skilleth not a little what licour you poure
into a newe vessell at the first. Finallye, we shall prouide that
they may haue euen at home in our house a good example of lyfe to
followe.

=Ma. = Harde it is to bring that to passe that you say.

[Sidenote: Difficiliaque pulchra. _Godly things be harde. _]

=Pam. = No maruaile, for commendable, and good it is. And for that also
are you harde to bée entreated and wonne, the more deficile and harde
it is, the more good will and indeuour shall wée put there vnto.

=Maria. = You shall haue mée a matter soft and plyant, sée you y^t you
do your part in forming and shaping me as you ought.

=Pam. = But in the meane while saye those thrée wordes which I require
of you.

Ma. = Nothing were more easie for me to doe, but wordes be wynged, and
when they be flowen out once doe not retire, I will tell you what were
a better way for vs both. You shall treate with your Parentes and
myne, and with their will and consent let the matter be concluded.

=Pam. = Ah you set me to wooe againe, it is in you, with thrée words to
dispatch the whole matter.

=Ma. = Whether it lyeth in mée so to doe (as you say) I knowe not, for
I am not at liberty. And in olde time mariages were not concluded
without the will & consent of their parents or elders. But howsoeuer
the case be, I suppose our mariage shall bée the more luckie, if it be
made by the authoritie of our parents. And your part it is to seke and
craue the good will, for vs to doe it, it were vnséemelye: virginite
would séeme alwayes to be taken with violence, yea though sometime we
loue the partie most earnestly.

=Pam. = I wil not let to séeke their good will, so that I may alwayes
be in an assurance of your consent.

=Ma. = You néede not doubt thereof, be of good chéere (my _Pamphile_)

=Pam. = You are herein more scrupulus yet then I woulde wish you to be.

=Ma. = Nay marie, waye, and consider you well with your selfe, before,
whervnto you haue set your minde and will. And do not take into your
counsaile, this blind affection borne towardes my person, but rather
reason, for that which affection decerneth is liked for a reasō, but
that which reason auiseth is neuer mislyked.

=Pam. = Certes thou speakest like a wittie wench; wherefore I intende
to followe thy counsayle.

=Ma. = You shall not repent you thereof, but how he sirha there is now
fallen into my minde a doubt, which vexeth mée sore.

=Pam. = Away with all such doubtes for Gods sake.

=Ma. = Why will you haue me marry my selfe to a dead man.

=Pam. = Not so, for I will reuiue againe.

=Maria. = Now, loe you haue voided this doubt, fare yee well my
_Pamphile_.

=Pam. = See you I pray that I may so doe.

=Ma. = I pray God giue you a good night, why fetch you such a sighe
man?

=Pam. = A good night say you? I woulde to God you would vouchsafe to
giue me that, which you wishe mee.

=Ma. = Soft and faire, I pray you your haruest is as yet but in the
greene blade.

=Pam. = Shall I haue nothing of yours wyth me at my departure.

=Ma. = Take this Pomander to chéere your harte wyth.

=Pam. = Yet giue me a kisse withal I pray thee.

=Ma. = I would kéepe my virginitie whole, and vndefiled for you.

=Pam. = Why doth a kisse take ought away from your virginitie?

=Ma. = Would you thinke it well done that I shoulde be frée of kisses
vnto other men.

=Pam. = Nay marrie I would haue my kisses spared for my selfe.

=Ma. = I keepe them for you then. And yet there is an other thing in
y^e way, which maketh me that I dare not at thys time giue you a
kisse.

=Pam. = What is that.

=Ma. = You saye that your soule is alreadie gone well néere altogither
into my body, and a very small parte thereof taryeth behinde in your
owne, so that I feare in time of a kisse, that which remayneth might
happen to sterte out after it, & then were you altogither without a
soule. Haue you therefore my right hande in token of mutuall loue, and
so fare you well. Go you earnestly about your matters. And I for my
part in the meane while, shall pray vnto Christ, that the thing which
you do, may be vnto the ioy and felicitie of vs both. Amen

[Illustration]

* * * * *




Of the yong man and the
_euill disposed woman_.




=Lucrecia. = =Sophronius. =


Iesu mercy my olde louing Frynde _Sophronius_, are you at length come
againe vnto vs? nowe mee thinkes you haue beene awaye euen a worlde
space, Truelye at the first blushe I scarce knewe you.

=Sophronius.
= And why so myne olde acquanintaunce _Lucres_?

=Lucres. = Why so? bicause at your departing you had no berd at al,
now you become a handsome beardling. But what is the matter my sweete
harte: for me thinks you are waxed more sterne and graue countenaunced
then to fore you had wont.

=Sophronius. = I would gladly talke with you friendlye in some place
aparte from all companye.

=Lucres. = Why are we not here alone (my luste? )

=Sophronius. = No, let vs go our selues into some place yet more secret
and priuie.

=Lu. = Be it so, let vs go into my inwarde chamber, if ought you list
to doe.

=Sophronius. = Yet mee thinketh this place is not close & secret
ynough.

=Lucres. = Why? whence comes this new shamefastnesse vpon you. I haue a
Closet wherein I lay vp my Iewels and array, a place so darke that
vnneth the one of vs shall see the other.

=So. = Looke round about it, if there be any crany or rifte.

=Lu. = Here is not a cranye nor rifte to be seene.

=So. = Is there no body neere that mought listen and here vs?

=Lu. = No verily not a flie (my ioy) why doubt you? Why go you not
about your purpose?

=So. = Shall wee here beguile the eies of God?

=Lu. = Not so, for he seeth thorow all things?

=So. = Or shall wee be out of the sight of his Aungels?

=Lu. = Neyther, for no bodie can hide him out of their sight.

=So. = How happeneth it then, that we be not ashamed to doe that before
the eies of God, and in the presence of his holy Aungels, which wee
woulde be ashamed to doe in the syght of men?

=Lu. = What a strange thing is this, came you hither to preache? put
yee on, one of Saint Francis cowles, and get ye vp into the Pulpit,
and let vs heare you there my yong Beardling.

=So. = Neither would I thinke it much so to doe, if by that meane I
might call you backe from thys kind of life, not only most foule &
shameful, but also most miserable.

=Lu. = And why so good sir? I must get my liuing one way or other,
euery man liueth and is maintained by his craft, & science, this is
our trade our lands and reuenues.

=So. = I would to God (good friende _Lucres_) that you, voyding for a
while this dronkennesse of the mynde, coulde finde in your heart
rightly to ponder and consider with me, the thing as it is.

=Lu. = Keepe your sermond till an other time, nowe let vs take our
pleasure (my good friende _Sophronie_).

=So. = All that you doe, you doe it for lucre and gaines I am sure.

=Lu. = Therin you haue gone nere the marke.

=So. = Well, you shall loose no parte of that, which you make your
accompt vppon, I will giue you euen foure times as much onely, to lend
me your attentiue care.

=Lu. = Say on then euen what you please.

=So. = First aunswere me to this. Haue you any that beareth you euill
wil?

=Lu. = Mo then one.

=So. = And are there not some againe, whome you hate likewise?

=Lu. = Euen as they deserue at my hande.

=So. = Now if it lay in thee to pleasure them wouldest thou in faith
do it?

=Lu. = Nay sooner woulde I giue them their bane.

=So. = Verie well, consider now, consider I saye whither ought thou
mayest doe to them more pleasaunt and better lyked, then to let them
see thee leade this maner of lyfe, so shamefull and wretched. On the
other side, what canst thou do more to the griefe and misliking of
them, which be thy verye friendes in deede?

=Lu. = Such was my lot, and destinie.

=So. = Moreouer, that which is compted to be the most harde, and heauie
happe of those which are cast out into Ilands, or banished vnto the
people most inhumaine and barbarous, the same haue you of your owne
free will, and election, taken vnto your selfe.

=Lu. = And what is that?

=So. = Hast not thou of thine accorde renounced & forsaken all naturall
affections and loues, your father, mother, brethren, sistrene, aunt,
great aunt, & whomsoeuer beside nature hath linked vnto thee for they
in verye deede, are full euill ashamed of thee, and thou darest not
once come into their sight.

=Lu. = Naye marrye, mee thinkes I haue luckilye chaunged myne affectes,
in that for a few louers, nowe I haue won me verie many, among whome
you are one, whome I haue accompted off as my naturall brother.

=So. = Let passe this light accustomed talke, & way the matter as it
is, in earnest. And first beleeue mee this (my _Lucres_) shee that
hath so many louers, hath no loue at all. They that resort vnto thee,
doe not take thee for their loue, but rather for their luste, see
howe thou hast debased thy selfe wretched Woman. Christ helde thee so
deere, that hee vouchsafed to redeeme thee with his most precious
bloud, to the ende, thou mightest partake with him in his heauenlye
kingdome. And thou makest thy selfe a cõmon Gonge, or muckhill
wherevnto fowle and filthy, scalde, and scuruie, doth at their
pleasure resort, to shake off their filth and corruption. That if thou
be yet free and not infected wyth that lothsome kinde of leprie,
commonly called the french pockes, assure thy selfe thou cannot long
be wythout it. Which if it chaunce thee to haue, what in more
miserable and wretched case then thou, yea, though other things were
as thou wouldst wish (I meane) thy substance and fame, what shalt thou
then be, but a lump of quick carraine: you thought it a great matter
to be obedient vnto your mother, now you liue in seruitude, vnder a
filthie bawde. It went to your heart to heare the good aduertisements
of your father, here you must often tymes take in good parte, euen the
stripes of dronkardes, and madbraines, you coulde awaye with no maner
of worke, when you were with your friendes, to helpe towardes your
lyuing, but in this place what trouble, what continuall watcking are
you faine to sustaine?

=Lu. = From whence (and God will) coms this new prating preacher.

=So. = Now I praye thee, haue this also in thy minde. The flower of
beautie, which is the baite that allureth men to loue thee, in shorte
time it shall fade, and decaye. And what shalt thou then doe, vnhappie
creature, what donghill shall be more vile, and vnregarded than thou
then? than loe, thou shalt of an hoore, become a bawde, yet euery one
of you commeth not vnto that promotion, but if that befalleth thee,
what is more abhominable, or nerer reprocheth euen to the wicked
occupacion of the deuill.

=Lu. = Truth it is in good faith, _Sophronie_ in a maner all that you
haue hitherto sayde. But howe commeth this newe holinesse vpon you,
who were wont to be amongst all the little goods, yet one of the
least, for no man repaired hither, eyther oftener or at more vntimely
howres, than your self? I heare say you haue beene at Roome latelie.

=So. = I haue so in deede.

=Lucres. = Why men are wont to come from thence worse than they went
thither. How happeneth the contrarie to you?

=So. = I will tell you, bycause I went not to Rome, with that minde,
and after that sort, other commonlie goe to Rome, euen of set purpose
to retourne woorse, & so doing they want none occasions when they come
there, to be as they purposed. But I went thither in the companie of
an honest vertuous man, by whose aduise, in steede of a bibbing
bottel, I caried with me, a handsome little booke the new testament of
_Erasmus_ translation.

=Lu. = Of _Erasmus_? And they saye he is an heretike and an halfe.

=So. = Why hath the name of that man come hither also?

=Lu. = None more famous with vs.

=So. = Haue you euer seene his persone?

=Lu. = Neuer, but in good fayth I woulde I might, bycause I haue hearde
so much euill of hym.

=So. = Perhaps of them that be euill themselues.

=Lu. = Nay truely, euen of reuerend personages.

=So. = What be they.

=Lucres. = I may not tell you that.

=So. = And why so I pray.

=Lu. = Bicause if you should blab it out, and it come vnto their eares,
I should loose no small part of my lyuing.

=So. = Feare thou not, thou shalt speake it to a stone.

=Lu. = Harken hither in thine eare thẽ.

=So. = A fonde wench, what needeth it to lay mine eare to thine, seing
we be alone? except it were that God shoulde not heare it. Oh lyuing
God, I see thou art a religious whore, thou doest thy charity vpon
Mendicants.

[Sidenote: _Mendicant Friers. _]

=Lu. = Well, I get more by these Mendicants & simple beggers, than by
you riche folke.

=So. = So I thinke, they spoyle and prowle from honest matrones to cast
at whores tayles.

=Lu. = But tell on your tale concerning the booke.

=So. = I will so doe, and better it is. Therein Paule taught me a
lessõ, who being indued with the spirite of truth could not lie, that
neyther whores, nor whore haunters shall inherite the kingdome of
heauen. When I had reade this, I beganne to consider with my selfe in
this wise. It is a small thinge, which I looke to be heire of by my
father, and yet neuerthelesse rather I had to shake hands with all
wanton women, then to be set beside that inheritance, how muche more
then doth it sit me on, to beware y^e my father in heaue doth not
disinherite me of that far more excellent inheritance, for against
mine earthly father, which goeth about to disinherite me, or to cast
me off, the ciuill lawes doe offer a remedie, but if God list to cast
of, or disinherite, there is no helpe at all. Wherevpon, I foorthwith
vtterlie forefended my selfe, the vse and familiaritie of all euill
disposed women.

=Lu. = That is if you be able to lyue chaste.

=So. = It is a good parte of the vertue of continencie, hartilie to
couit and desire the same, if it will not so bee, well, the vttermost
remedie is to take a Wife. When I was come to Rome, I powred out the
hole sincke of my conscience into the bosome of a certayne Frier
penitentiarie, who with many words, right wiselye exhorted mee to
puritie, and cleannesse of minde and bodye, and vnto the deuout
reading of holie scripture, with oft prayer & sobernesse of life, for
my penaunce he enioyned me naught else, but that I shoulde kneele on
my knees before the high alter, and say y^e Psalme _Miserere mei
deus_. And if I had mony to giue in almoys vnto some poore bodie a
_Carolyne_. And wheras I meruayled much, that for so many times, as I
hadde confessed my selfe to haue played the brothell, he layed vppon
me so small a penaunce, hee aunswered me right pleasauntlye thus.
Sonne (quoth he) if thou truely repent, if thou change thy
conuersation, I passe not on thy penance, but if thou proceed stil
therin, thy very lust it self shal at the length bring thee to paine
and penaunce ynough I warrant thee, though the Priest appointeth thee
none, for example loke vpon my selfe, whome thou seest now, bleare
eyed, palsey shaken, and crooked, and in time paste I was euen such a
one as thou declarest thy selfe to be. Thus loe haue I learned to
leaue it.

=Lu. = Why then for ought that I can see I haue loste my _Sophronius_.

=So. = Nay rather thou hast him safe, for before he was in deede loste,
as one which neyther loued thee nor hymselfe. He now loueth thee with
a true loue, and thirsteth thy saluation.

=Lu. = What aduise you me then to doe, friende _Sophronius_?

=So. = As soone as possible you may to withdrawe your selfe from this
kinde of lyfe, you are yet but a girle (to speake off) and the spot of
your misdemeanour maye be washed away. Either take an husband (so
doing we wyll contribute some thing to preferre you) eyther else get
you into some godly Colledge or Monestery which receyueth those that
haue done amisse, vpon promise of amendment, or at the leastwyse
departing from this place, betake your selfe into the seruice of some
vertuous and well disposed Matrone. And to which of these you liste to
enclyne your minde, I offer you my friendly helpe and furtheraunce.

=Lu. = Now I besech you with all my hart _Sophronie_ looke about &
prouide for me, I will follow your counsayle.

=So. = But in the meane while conuey your selfe from out of this place.

=Lu. = Alack so sone,

=So. = Why not, rather this day than to morrow? namely since lingering
it is damage, and delay is daungerous.

=Lu. = Whether should I then repaire, where should I stay my selfe?

=So. = You shall packe vp all your apparell and Iewels, & deliuer it
vnto me in the euening, my seruaunt shall closelye carrie it, vnto a
faithfull honest Matrone. And within a while after, I will leade you
out, as it were to walke with me and you shal secretly abide in that
Matrons house, at my charge, vntill I prouide for you: And that time
shall not bee long.

=Lu. = Be it so my _Sophronius_, I betake my selfe wholy vnto you.

=So. = For so doing here-after, you shall haue ioy.


_FINIS. _

¶ One dialogue, or Colloquye of Erasmus (entituled
Diuersoria) Translated oute of Latten
into Englyshe: And Imprinted, to
the ende that the Judgem[~e]t
of the Learned maye be hadde
before the Translator pro-
cede in the reste.
E. H.

[Illustration]

¶ Imprinted at London in Fleetstreete, at the
signe of the Faucon by William Griffyth,
and are to be solde at his shop
in S. Dunstons Churchyard
in the west.
1566

* * * * *

¶ The Translator to the indifferent reader.

If I were throughlye perswaded (g[~e]tle reader) y^t mine attempt of the
learned were in all points allowed and the order in my translation
correspondent thereunto, I woulde at this present proceede in mine
enterprise, with entent by gods helpe to finishe the translation of the
whole boke: But because I am vnlearned & therfore must not be mine owne
iudge therein, I geue the here a tast of my store for proofe of mine
abilitie: desiring the at the least wise not to be offended at the same so
boldly attemted and simplye perfourmed.