Bnt, I pray, answer me, did ffigistbus who kill'd
Agamemnon
at ii/gtfj,jgovern those sorts of people, ArtificersandprivatePersons, bothJvlenand Women5orothers> ,.
Plato - 1701 - Works - a
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? * ? ? . -i*? . ?
THE-
? ? ':
THE AGES, OR
Of Wisdom.
I
Demodocus, Socrates, Theages.
Demoi. QOcrates, I have a great mind to discourse \j withyoualittleinprivate,ifyouare at leisure ; and ifyou are not, I entreat you to take
a little time for my Sake, unless your Business is very urgent.
Sac Ihavealwaysleisure,andmoretoserveyou than any other Person ; if you have a mind to dis coursewithme, Iam readyforyou.
Dem. Shallwe retireintothePorchoftheTem ple of Jupiter Elutberius ?
Soc. What you please.
{*%ratitht
Dem. * Let us go then, Socrates, Methinksj^J? ljoU
Animals, and evenMan himself are like Plants:asaviour,
Forwewhomanure theEarthknowbyexperiencet>>hinwt* that'tiseasytoprepareallthingsnecessarybeforewe taMA*~
plant\butwhenthatwhichwe haveplantediscomeYbt'EducL up, thecareandpainswe musttakeaboutitisveryth>>of greatandtroublesome. TisthefamewithMen:Toy}. AndIjudgeofothersbymyself. There'smySon;
eversincehehasbeenborn, hisEducationwillnot sufferme torestonemoment, butkeeps me incon tinualfear. Withoutenteringintoanyparticular
* In the Original Dtmodoau speaks like a good honest Cou trey Man, who is wholly taken up with Husbandry: But I don't think it necessary to make roy Translation speak aster that manner.
account
*5i
? ? ij4
THE AGES; or,
account of allthe occasions of Fear Ihave concerning
him, I'll tell you one which has but very lately a$>. p e a r ' d ? , A n d t h a t i s a n A m b i t i o n h e h a s , w h i c h i n
deed is not dishonourable, but is a very nice and
dangerousthing,andmakesmeafraid. He-,would
-fainfalluponthestudyof*Wisdom. Probably
some ofhisCompanions, and some young People of
ourTownwhofrequentAthens, givehimanacconnt
of some Discourses they have heard, which have dis turbed his Brain. For he's so full of Emulation
that he continually torments me with importunate
Intreaties, thatIwould give a piece of Money to
someSophisttoaccomplishhim. *TisnottheCharge
that I fear ^ but I fee thisPassion of his will expose
himtogreatdanger. HithertoIhaverestrainedhim by amusing him with good Words ? > but now that I
supposeIcanbeMasterofhimnolonger; Ithink the best course I can take is to consent to let him take his own course, for fear the Conversation he mayhaveinsecretandwithoutmyknowledgshould corrupthim. ThereforeIamnowcometoAthens toputhimundertheTuitionofsomeSophist-yand 'tisveryhappythatIhavemetyou? ,foryouarethe Person w h o m above all others I should wish to con sultuponthisAffair. IfthereforeyouhaveanyAd vicetogiveme-yIearnestlyintreatitofyou:,and you are too just to refuse me.
Adviceis samd,andthatAdviceisaSacredThing:andifitisSacredin
^oc' But nave y? u not often heard, Det/iodocth;
confeqmntinallotheroccasionsofLife, 'tismuchmorelbinthis; f^! *TM'10 for of all things, on which a M a n can ask advice,
givm: *l>>4t'1'ere isnothing more Divine than that which respects wiithoitgbttheEducationofChildren. Firstthen,letYouand t>i- Iagree, what it is precisely that you desire, and a- Nothingit bout what we aretoconsult, lest I understand one mmdivm tnjng an(j vou another (as it iffay often happen)-,
lelongsto andibattheendofourDiscoursewe bothappear
itJ^friTi *WisdomisaWordthatsignifiesdiversthings,asKnowledg, liono)ce>>-g^ Vestue> Flttfuses-tforthatScieaccwhlchaacheshow
ttogovernStates. "
tidicu-
? ? Of WISDOM. 155
ridiculous to our selves for having talk'd so long without understanding one another.
Dem. You lay right, Socrates,
Soc. I say right, ay certainly And yet I
don't lay so right as I thought, but retract in part ;
foritcomesintomyMind, thatthisyoungMan
may have a desire very different from that which we think he has ? ,which would render us stillmore ri
diculous for consulting about quite another thing thantheObjectofhisWishes. "Tisbesttherefore tobeginwithhim, and ask him what itisthathe desires,
Dem. Yes, certainly, that's the best way.
Soc. But, I pray, what is this fine young Man's Name >
Dem. HisNameisTheages.
Soc. *Whatanexcellent,andiacredNamehave you given him ! Well, then Theages^ you desire to becomewife, andyouurgeyourFathertofindyoua Man, whole Conversation may furnish you with thatWildom, withwhichyouaresomuchinLove?
Tbeag. Yes.
Soc. W h o are those Persons you call wise, are they such as are skillful in what they have leansd, or the ignorant >
The. Such as are skillful.
Soc. What! hasnotyourFathercaus'dyoutobe instructed in every thing, that the Children of our best Citizens learn, as to read, to play on Musical Instruments, to wrestle, and to perform all other Exercises ? .
The. Yes,myFatherhascaus'dmetobetaught allthis.
Soc. Wellthen! anddoyouthinkthereisanyo- ther Science, in which your Father is oblig'd to causeyou to be instructed ?
The. Yeswithoutdoubt.
* The Athenians were very careful to give fine Sacred Name* totheirChildren:ButallName*arefalse, whentheydon'tde scribe the Character of thttfe to w h o m they are given.
Soc.
? ? 156
THE AGES) dr,
Soc. WhatScienceisthat>Tellme,thatImay render you some Service in the Matter.
- The. M y Father very well knows it ; for I have v e r y o f t e n t o l d h i m o f it ; b u t h e is p l e a s ' d t o s p e a k after such a manner to you, as if he did not know what I dehYd. There's no day passes, but he dis puteswithme, andstillrefusestocommitmeto theCare of some skillful Man,
Soc. But all that you have hitherto said to him, haspastonly between you two. Now therefore takemeforanArbitrator;andbeforeme declare whatScienceitisyouhaveamindtoattain. For if you were willing to learn that Science which teaches how to steer Ships, and I should ask you, Tbeages, what Science isit in which you complain your Father is not willing to have you instructed > Wouldyounotimmediatelyanswerme, that'tisthe Scienceof Pilots>
The. Yes doubtless.
Soc. And if you were willing to learn the Art which teaches how to drive Chariots, would you notinlikemannertellme, 'tisthatof*Charioteers?
The. I should tell you the very fame thing.
Soc. Has that of which you are so delirous a Name, orhasitnone?
The. IbelieveithasaName.
Soc. Doyouknow itthenwithout-knowingthe Nameofit>
The. Iknowit,andIknowtheNameofittoo. Soc. Tellme what itisthen. The. WhatotherNamecanithavethanthatof
_. . .
utlo Science}
rai, Mi Soc. But is not the Art of Charioteers also a Sci< doesnot ence;whatdoyouthink'tisapieceofIgnorance?
frffiimtiy The. No certainly.
S g l S o c - T h e n ' t i s a S c i e n c e ? ? > w h a t i s t h e u s e o f i t ? D o e s
quird after, ltnot teach us to guide the Horses that are fasten'd to a
as S crarcs Chariot ?
i*goingto The. Mostcertainly.
>**"' Soc. And isnot the Art of Pilots also a Science ? The. So Ithink.
? ? *OsWISDOM. ttf
$oc. hitnotthatwhich teachesushow toguideships> The. Theveryfame.
Soc. Wellwhatisthatwhichyouhaveamindto learn, and what does that teach ys to govern ?
The. I think it teaches us to govemMeni. . Soc. What,lickMen?
The. No. ?
Soc. For that belongs to the Medicinal-Art, does. it not> ? ?
The. Whodoubtsit> . . . Soc. Well then does it teach us to regulate the1
Choir of Musicians >
The. Notatalii . ,
Soc. ForthatproperlyappertainstoMufick. The. True.
Soc. But doesitteachustogovernthosewhoper
form theExercises>
The. . N o more than the others. "
Soc. For that belongs to the Gymnastick Art;
What fortofMen thendoesitteachustogovern? Explain your selfclearly asI have done on theother Sciences.
The. Itteachesustogovernthosewhoareinthe . Cky.
Soc. But are there not Sick M e n too in the City ?
The. Without doubt there are, but Idon't meaa them, I speak of the other Citizens.
Sdc. Let'sfee,ifIunderstandwell ofwhatArr you speak, I think yOu don't speak of that which teaches us to govern Mowers, Virie-dressers, Plow- Men, Sowers, and Threshers ; for that belongs to Husbandry. Nordoyouspeakofthatwhichteach esto governthosethathandletheSaw,'thePlane, and the Lathe : for that belongs to the Joyner's Art. But you seeak of the Art that teaches to govern not only these but all other Artificers, and all private:
PersonsbothMenandWomen:Perhapsthisisthe Science you mean. .
The. . 'Tistheverylame, Ihadnodesigntospeak ofany other.
S Sot,.
? ? i58
7PBJGES; or,?
Sec. .
Bnt, I pray, answer me, did ffigistbus who kill'd Agamemnon at ii/gtfj,jgovern those sorts of people, ArtificersandprivatePersons, bothJvlenand Women5orothers> ,. i: ,;
The. . He governed ordy su^h as the^e ,. aje there
anyothertobegovern'd? v . ; ;'\l. Soc. DidnotFeleustheSonofEacmU^ewitego
vern thefe zxfibtbU,* ty$&\&n$t fieriffldgr the Son
wCypfelus ruie 'eni at Corinth ? Did not r. rebels Iturn5or? /y. tjie? on0fPcrdiccat, who some few yearsiince
VnT ^qendedtlieThrpneofMfc^o. mq^ alfp. . command
#<<'>><<< thesefortsofPeoplefAnddidnot"-$? tt'Bpiaithg
tyrdoetbe Son of . Pijijlratus, who govern'd jn tiiig. Qty, rule niofthis ourCitizensinljkemanner> ,-, ,<
veryTear.
Tfe; Who doubts it'^
Sue. Tell me, what do you call + Bach, the Sybile and our'Ampbilytus j when you zwft(4 denote their
pvfesBon. ? _rs;v
;Tbt\ What mould we call 'em but Peyiners)
Sac. Verywejl. Anfvjjermeaftefthg%memari ner about these: What do you call iiifpia^ and Per/anJe/\ when you would denote their profession by the Dominion, they Exercise ?
The. Tyrants, Ithinkjwhat otherName canwe
give 'errr* :
? ? Soc. Then every one who 4efoes to command all
tee People in this City, desires to acquire a Domi nionlike-theirs,aTyrannicalDominion, andtobe come a Tyrant. The. I think so.
*Hipphs, tht$onofPisiflratnsviaiTyramo{Atbmsfouryan> according to Timcydidts he succeeded his Father, and not Hippae thm. After he had reigned 4 years he was banished ; and 20 yearsafterhieExilewaskill'dactheBattleofMn^tbtm, where he bore Arms for the Persians.
? f BackwasaProphetwholongbeforeXerxesmade aDescent into Greece, predicted to the People all that should befal 'em, Herodotus relates some of his Prophesies in his VIII Book ; and looks upon 'em to be soformal and plain, since? theirAccomplish ment, that he says, he neither dares accuse these Oracles of sals- hood himself, nor suffer others so to do, or to refuse to give Cre ditto'em. AristophanesspeaksofthisPcrinerinhisComdy0] race. AsforMphilytus,Iknowsothingofhim.
?
Soc.
? ? Of WUVQM. 259
'Soc. This then is the Science with which you are ibmuchinLove.
The. . That isa natural Consequence jofwhat I have said.
Soc. Y o u are a Villain ! D o y o u desire to b e c o m e
our Tyrant ; and have the boldnets to complain that
your Father does not put you under the Conduct of
feme Person that may qualifie you forTyrany?
$Andyou,Demodocus;whoknowyourSon'sAmbi-
Q % and have wherewith to:fend him to be accom-
pltfo'd in this fineScience which he desires, are not y o u a f h a m ' d t o e n v y h i m t h i s H a p p i n e s s ? , a n d n o t
to provide him tome great Master ? But since he << o w c o m p l a i n s o f y o u , a s y o u i e e , i n m y P r e s e n c e ;? letusconsider-whithertosendhim, andifweknow any one whose Conversation may make him an ac- complish'd Tyrant.
Dem. Socrates,IbegofyouforGod's,sakeletusD . considerittogether. Foronsuchanoccasionasthisduals'
we have need ofgood Advice.
Soc, Hold a little, let us firstknow ofhim what
he thinks of the Matter.
Dem. You may ask him what you please.
Soc. Theages, if we had to do with Euripides,
who somewhere says,
Wife are the Tyrantsjxho with tV iv/fe Converse.
andshouldaskhim,Euripides, inwhatdoyoufay Tyrants become wife by the Conversation of wise Men ? Ifinsteadofthatheshouldtellus, Wifearethe'Plow-men, zvbowitht)fwifeConverse, we should not fail to ask him, in what are rhe Plow-men render'd wife ? Do you think he would give us any otljer answer than that they are render'd wise in that which belongs to Husbandry ?
The. No:HewouldgivenootherAnswer.
% This isan Ironie of Socrates founded on what Dtmodic*s said acthebeginningof thisDiscourse, vi\. thathisSon had an Ambi tionthatwasnotdishonourable. MarjiiutsRinniuand DrSims were equally mistaken here ; and not perceiving the Ironie corrup ted this Passage by their Trans! ition.
ibUheira. ist-,*>hich
stSS*'-* calls"""'
,
S2 Soc.
? ? 160
THE AGES }or,
Soc. Andifheshouldtellus,
Wife are the Cooks, who with the wife Converse, andweshouldaskhimwhereintheyaremadewife? What do you think he would answer ? Would he not say they are made wise in the Art of Cookery ?
The. Without doubt.
Soc. And if he should say,
Wife are the Wrefllers', who with tV wife Con
verse: '?
Would he not upon the Repetition of the same
Question give us the fame Reply, that theyare made expertintheArtofWrestling? The. Yescertainly.
Soc. Thisbeingso,sincehetellsus, >
Wife are the Tyrants, who with tV wife Con verse :
. If we should ask him, Euripides, in what are those Tyrants render'd wise ? What answer do you think he would make us? in what would he make thisWisdomconsist? The. IprotestIcan'ttell.
Soc. Shall I tell you then?
The. Withallmyheart,ifyouplease.
Soc. He would say they were made wise in that
Art which Anacreon tells us, * the wife Callicrete knew perfectlywell. Don'tyourememberhisSongs?
The. Ido remember it.
Soc. Wellthendon'tyoudesiretobecommittedto theCareofsomeMan, whoisofthefameProfefli- ? on with this Virgin of Cyane, and knows like her
theArtof forming Tyrants, that you may become ourTyrant,audthatofthewholeCity? \
The. Socrates, you have play'd and jested on me a great while.
Soc. How ! Don't you fay you desire to acquire that Science which will teach you to govern all the Citizens ? Can you govern them without becoming their Tyrant ?
The* I could heartily wiih to become the Tyrant
* ThiswasaVirginwhoernploy'dherseisinteachingPoliticks, as Afpssia, Victim}, and some others did after her. The Verses whir-li Anacrton made on her arelost,
of
? ? Of WISDOM. . i6t
ofallMankind, andifthatbetoomuch, atleast ofthegrearestpartof'em;andIbelieve, Socrates, youwouldhavethe sameAmbitionaswelLasallother M e n : N a y perhaps it would so little content you to
be a Tyrant, that,you would be a God ; but I did xbisit not tell you that that was the thing I desir'd. famdtd on
Soc. What is it you desire ? Don't you fay you wb* So- desiretogovernCitizens? " ' ? *? **? *?
The. NottogovernthembyforceasTyrantsdo^thatMm
but by theirown Consent, as those great Men haxejbnldU- done which we have had in this City. **<<? to
Soc. What! asThemistocles, Pericles, Qmon,J5*<<J*'
andothergreatPoliticianshavedone? The. Yes.
Soc. Well then, if you had a mind to become very expert in the Art of Horsemanship, to what Mendoyouthinkyououghttoapplyyour. selfto become a good Horse-man ? Would you go to any other than Querries ?
The. Nocerrainly. *
Soc. Would you not make choice of the best Querries ; those that have the greatest Number of Horses i and such as ride not only their o w n Horses, butthoseofotherMen? ? .
The. Without doubt I should choose such.
q^ ^
Soc, And if you would become very expert at. /hooting, would you not address your self to the bestArchers;and tosuchasbestknowhowtouse all forts of Bows and Arrows ?
The. Yes, certainly.
Soc. Tell me then, since you have a mind to be come expert inPoliticks , do you think you can ac* quire this Skill in addressing your self to any beside great Politicians, who have a depth of Judgment in this. Science, and know how to conduct, not only their own City, but many others as well of the Greeks as the Barbarians. ^Or do you think by conver singwith any other fort of Persons, to become as expert a,s these great M e n ?
? The. Socrates. I have heard talk of some Dis
, S 3 courses
? ? %6i
. THEAGES. , or,
?
courses of yours t, which you made (as *tis said) to shew, that * the Sons of these great Politicians were no better than the Sons ofCobleoe-, and asfar asIcanjudg,'t'tsanundeniableTruth. Ishould
therefore be a great Fool to believe that any one of
'em,couldgivemehisWisdom,whichhedidnot
communicate to hisown Son, and which he ought tohavebestow'donhimmuchrather,ifhewereca
pable of doing it, than on a Stranger.
Soc. What would yo do then, Theages^ ifyou had a
Son that follow'd you so closely every day, telling you' hehadamindtobeagreatPainter? andcomplained continually that y o u w h o w e r e his Father, w o u l d not beartheleastexpencetosatisfyhisdesire$ while on the other sidehe despis'd the mostexcellentMas ters,and refus'd to go to School to 'em to learn their Art? Ilaythefameifhehadamindtoplaywell o n t h e F l u t e , o r t o b e a n e x c e l l e n t H a r p e r ? , s h o u l d
youknowanyotherway togratifyhim,oranyother People to send hinrto ; when he should refuse such Masters?
The. For m y part I know not what could be done.
Soc. This is exactly the fame course that you take with your . Father : H o w then can you be liirpriz'd and complain, that he knows not what to do with you,norwheretofendyoutomakeyouanAccom
plishedMan? icritlieswhollyatyourownDoor. If
you will, he will immediately put you under the "Conduct of our best Masters ; and such as are most expertinPoliticks: Youhave nothingtodo butto choose your Teacher; They'll ask nothing of you. Sothatyoumay laveyourMoney,andacquirewith them more Reputation among the People, t than
you can obtain in the Conversation of any other.
* AllrhosegreatPoliticianscouldnotteachtheirChildrento, he wife-, a sure sign that Wisdom can't be taught; there ii no thingof itinMan, butwhatGod putsintohim,asSocratesproves inorc ar ! ,:rge in his . vinsn.
t For-the common People are very illJudges, and may be ea sily iltcc iv'd, hey constantly t-ke those -Men for the most wi<? a'gd. skillful, who are most bold and insolent,
? ? ,0f WISDOM. 263
The. Well then, Socrates, are not you likewise one of those Great M e n >if youll suffer. me to attend you 'tisenough, I'llseekfornootherMaster.
Soc. WhatisthatyoufayTheages?
Dem. AhSocrates, MySonhaslaidverywell,
andyouwoulddomeagreatKindness! No,Ihave
nogreaterHappinessthantofeemy Sonpleasdwith y o u r C o m p a n y ? ,< a n d t h a t y o u a f e s o g o o d a s t o p e r
mithimtotakethisLiberty. Iamafham'd'tofay
how much I desire it; but I entreat you both for
God's fake, you, Socrates, to receive m y Son ; aud
yort, Son, never to seek any other Master than So
crates. Bythismeansyou'llbothdelivermefromSocrates my greatestTroubleandFears. ForIam continu-wafthm
allyreadytodiewith FearlestmySonshouldfall^rdy^PirfL into the Hands of some Person that will corrupt him. atAthens, The. Well, Sir, you may lay aside your Fears on *** TMkom
myaccount,ifyouarebuthappyenoughtopersuade*/?
? * ? ? . -i*? . ?
THE-
? ? ':
THE AGES, OR
Of Wisdom.
I
Demodocus, Socrates, Theages.
Demoi. QOcrates, I have a great mind to discourse \j withyoualittleinprivate,ifyouare at leisure ; and ifyou are not, I entreat you to take
a little time for my Sake, unless your Business is very urgent.
Sac Ihavealwaysleisure,andmoretoserveyou than any other Person ; if you have a mind to dis coursewithme, Iam readyforyou.
Dem. Shallwe retireintothePorchoftheTem ple of Jupiter Elutberius ?
Soc. What you please.
{*%ratitht
Dem. * Let us go then, Socrates, Methinksj^J? ljoU
Animals, and evenMan himself are like Plants:asaviour,
Forwewhomanure theEarthknowbyexperiencet>>hinwt* that'tiseasytoprepareallthingsnecessarybeforewe taMA*~
plant\butwhenthatwhichwe haveplantediscomeYbt'EducL up, thecareandpainswe musttakeaboutitisveryth>>of greatandtroublesome. TisthefamewithMen:Toy}. AndIjudgeofothersbymyself. There'smySon;
eversincehehasbeenborn, hisEducationwillnot sufferme torestonemoment, butkeeps me incon tinualfear. Withoutenteringintoanyparticular
* In the Original Dtmodoau speaks like a good honest Cou trey Man, who is wholly taken up with Husbandry: But I don't think it necessary to make roy Translation speak aster that manner.
account
*5i
? ? ij4
THE AGES; or,
account of allthe occasions of Fear Ihave concerning
him, I'll tell you one which has but very lately a$>. p e a r ' d ? , A n d t h a t i s a n A m b i t i o n h e h a s , w h i c h i n
deed is not dishonourable, but is a very nice and
dangerousthing,andmakesmeafraid. He-,would
-fainfalluponthestudyof*Wisdom. Probably
some ofhisCompanions, and some young People of
ourTownwhofrequentAthens, givehimanacconnt
of some Discourses they have heard, which have dis turbed his Brain. For he's so full of Emulation
that he continually torments me with importunate
Intreaties, thatIwould give a piece of Money to
someSophisttoaccomplishhim. *TisnottheCharge
that I fear ^ but I fee thisPassion of his will expose
himtogreatdanger. HithertoIhaverestrainedhim by amusing him with good Words ? > but now that I
supposeIcanbeMasterofhimnolonger; Ithink the best course I can take is to consent to let him take his own course, for fear the Conversation he mayhaveinsecretandwithoutmyknowledgshould corrupthim. ThereforeIamnowcometoAthens toputhimundertheTuitionofsomeSophist-yand 'tisveryhappythatIhavemetyou? ,foryouarethe Person w h o m above all others I should wish to con sultuponthisAffair. IfthereforeyouhaveanyAd vicetogiveme-yIearnestlyintreatitofyou:,and you are too just to refuse me.
Adviceis samd,andthatAdviceisaSacredThing:andifitisSacredin
^oc' But nave y? u not often heard, Det/iodocth;
confeqmntinallotheroccasionsofLife, 'tismuchmorelbinthis; f^! *TM'10 for of all things, on which a M a n can ask advice,
givm: *l>>4t'1'ere isnothing more Divine than that which respects wiithoitgbttheEducationofChildren. Firstthen,letYouand t>i- Iagree, what it is precisely that you desire, and a- Nothingit bout what we aretoconsult, lest I understand one mmdivm tnjng an(j vou another (as it iffay often happen)-,
lelongsto andibattheendofourDiscoursewe bothappear
itJ^friTi *WisdomisaWordthatsignifiesdiversthings,asKnowledg, liono)ce>>-g^ Vestue> Flttfuses-tforthatScieaccwhlchaacheshow
ttogovernStates. "
tidicu-
? ? Of WISDOM. 155
ridiculous to our selves for having talk'd so long without understanding one another.
Dem. You lay right, Socrates,
Soc. I say right, ay certainly And yet I
don't lay so right as I thought, but retract in part ;
foritcomesintomyMind, thatthisyoungMan
may have a desire very different from that which we think he has ? ,which would render us stillmore ri
diculous for consulting about quite another thing thantheObjectofhisWishes. "Tisbesttherefore tobeginwithhim, and ask him what itisthathe desires,
Dem. Yes, certainly, that's the best way.
Soc. But, I pray, what is this fine young Man's Name >
Dem. HisNameisTheages.
Soc. *Whatanexcellent,andiacredNamehave you given him ! Well, then Theages^ you desire to becomewife, andyouurgeyourFathertofindyoua Man, whole Conversation may furnish you with thatWildom, withwhichyouaresomuchinLove?
Tbeag. Yes.
Soc. W h o are those Persons you call wise, are they such as are skillful in what they have leansd, or the ignorant >
The. Such as are skillful.
Soc. What! hasnotyourFathercaus'dyoutobe instructed in every thing, that the Children of our best Citizens learn, as to read, to play on Musical Instruments, to wrestle, and to perform all other Exercises ? .
The. Yes,myFatherhascaus'dmetobetaught allthis.
Soc. Wellthen! anddoyouthinkthereisanyo- ther Science, in which your Father is oblig'd to causeyou to be instructed ?
The. Yeswithoutdoubt.
* The Athenians were very careful to give fine Sacred Name* totheirChildren:ButallName*arefalse, whentheydon'tde scribe the Character of thttfe to w h o m they are given.
Soc.
? ? 156
THE AGES) dr,
Soc. WhatScienceisthat>Tellme,thatImay render you some Service in the Matter.
- The. M y Father very well knows it ; for I have v e r y o f t e n t o l d h i m o f it ; b u t h e is p l e a s ' d t o s p e a k after such a manner to you, as if he did not know what I dehYd. There's no day passes, but he dis puteswithme, andstillrefusestocommitmeto theCare of some skillful Man,
Soc. But all that you have hitherto said to him, haspastonly between you two. Now therefore takemeforanArbitrator;andbeforeme declare whatScienceitisyouhaveamindtoattain. For if you were willing to learn that Science which teaches how to steer Ships, and I should ask you, Tbeages, what Science isit in which you complain your Father is not willing to have you instructed > Wouldyounotimmediatelyanswerme, that'tisthe Scienceof Pilots>
The. Yes doubtless.
Soc. And if you were willing to learn the Art which teaches how to drive Chariots, would you notinlikemannertellme, 'tisthatof*Charioteers?
The. I should tell you the very fame thing.
Soc. Has that of which you are so delirous a Name, orhasitnone?
The. IbelieveithasaName.
Soc. Doyouknow itthenwithout-knowingthe Nameofit>
The. Iknowit,andIknowtheNameofittoo. Soc. Tellme what itisthen. The. WhatotherNamecanithavethanthatof
_. . .
utlo Science}
rai, Mi Soc. But is not the Art of Charioteers also a Sci< doesnot ence;whatdoyouthink'tisapieceofIgnorance?
frffiimtiy The. No certainly.
S g l S o c - T h e n ' t i s a S c i e n c e ? ? > w h a t i s t h e u s e o f i t ? D o e s
quird after, ltnot teach us to guide the Horses that are fasten'd to a
as S crarcs Chariot ?
i*goingto The. Mostcertainly.
>**"' Soc. And isnot the Art of Pilots also a Science ? The. So Ithink.
? ? *OsWISDOM. ttf
$oc. hitnotthatwhich teachesushow toguideships> The. Theveryfame.
Soc. Wellwhatisthatwhichyouhaveamindto learn, and what does that teach ys to govern ?
The. I think it teaches us to govemMeni. . Soc. What,lickMen?
The. No. ?
Soc. For that belongs to the Medicinal-Art, does. it not> ? ?
The. Whodoubtsit> . . . Soc. Well then does it teach us to regulate the1
Choir of Musicians >
The. Notatalii . ,
Soc. ForthatproperlyappertainstoMufick. The. True.
Soc. But doesitteachustogovernthosewhoper
form theExercises>
The. . N o more than the others. "
Soc. For that belongs to the Gymnastick Art;
What fortofMen thendoesitteachustogovern? Explain your selfclearly asI have done on theother Sciences.
The. Itteachesustogovernthosewhoareinthe . Cky.
Soc. But are there not Sick M e n too in the City ?
The. Without doubt there are, but Idon't meaa them, I speak of the other Citizens.
Sdc. Let'sfee,ifIunderstandwell ofwhatArr you speak, I think yOu don't speak of that which teaches us to govern Mowers, Virie-dressers, Plow- Men, Sowers, and Threshers ; for that belongs to Husbandry. Nordoyouspeakofthatwhichteach esto governthosethathandletheSaw,'thePlane, and the Lathe : for that belongs to the Joyner's Art. But you seeak of the Art that teaches to govern not only these but all other Artificers, and all private:
PersonsbothMenandWomen:Perhapsthisisthe Science you mean. .
The. . 'Tistheverylame, Ihadnodesigntospeak ofany other.
S Sot,.
? ? i58
7PBJGES; or,?
Sec. .
Bnt, I pray, answer me, did ffigistbus who kill'd Agamemnon at ii/gtfj,jgovern those sorts of people, ArtificersandprivatePersons, bothJvlenand Women5orothers> ,. i: ,;
The. . He governed ordy su^h as the^e ,. aje there
anyothertobegovern'd? v . ; ;'\l. Soc. DidnotFeleustheSonofEacmU^ewitego
vern thefe zxfibtbU,* ty$&\&n$t fieriffldgr the Son
wCypfelus ruie 'eni at Corinth ? Did not r. rebels Iturn5or? /y. tjie? on0fPcrdiccat, who some few yearsiince
VnT ^qendedtlieThrpneofMfc^o. mq^ alfp. . command
#<<'>><<< thesefortsofPeoplefAnddidnot"-$? tt'Bpiaithg
tyrdoetbe Son of . Pijijlratus, who govern'd jn tiiig. Qty, rule niofthis ourCitizensinljkemanner> ,-, ,<
veryTear.
Tfe; Who doubts it'^
Sue. Tell me, what do you call + Bach, the Sybile and our'Ampbilytus j when you zwft(4 denote their
pvfesBon. ? _rs;v
;Tbt\ What mould we call 'em but Peyiners)
Sac. Verywejl. Anfvjjermeaftefthg%memari ner about these: What do you call iiifpia^ and Per/anJe/\ when you would denote their profession by the Dominion, they Exercise ?
The. Tyrants, Ithinkjwhat otherName canwe
give 'errr* :
? ? Soc. Then every one who 4efoes to command all
tee People in this City, desires to acquire a Domi nionlike-theirs,aTyrannicalDominion, andtobe come a Tyrant. The. I think so.
*Hipphs, tht$onofPisiflratnsviaiTyramo{Atbmsfouryan> according to Timcydidts he succeeded his Father, and not Hippae thm. After he had reigned 4 years he was banished ; and 20 yearsafterhieExilewaskill'dactheBattleofMn^tbtm, where he bore Arms for the Persians.
? f BackwasaProphetwholongbeforeXerxesmade aDescent into Greece, predicted to the People all that should befal 'em, Herodotus relates some of his Prophesies in his VIII Book ; and looks upon 'em to be soformal and plain, since? theirAccomplish ment, that he says, he neither dares accuse these Oracles of sals- hood himself, nor suffer others so to do, or to refuse to give Cre ditto'em. AristophanesspeaksofthisPcrinerinhisComdy0] race. AsforMphilytus,Iknowsothingofhim.
?
Soc.
? ? Of WUVQM. 259
'Soc. This then is the Science with which you are ibmuchinLove.
The. . That isa natural Consequence jofwhat I have said.
Soc. Y o u are a Villain ! D o y o u desire to b e c o m e
our Tyrant ; and have the boldnets to complain that
your Father does not put you under the Conduct of
feme Person that may qualifie you forTyrany?
$Andyou,Demodocus;whoknowyourSon'sAmbi-
Q % and have wherewith to:fend him to be accom-
pltfo'd in this fineScience which he desires, are not y o u a f h a m ' d t o e n v y h i m t h i s H a p p i n e s s ? , a n d n o t
to provide him tome great Master ? But since he << o w c o m p l a i n s o f y o u , a s y o u i e e , i n m y P r e s e n c e ;? letusconsider-whithertosendhim, andifweknow any one whose Conversation may make him an ac- complish'd Tyrant.
Dem. Socrates,IbegofyouforGod's,sakeletusD . considerittogether. Foronsuchanoccasionasthisduals'
we have need ofgood Advice.
Soc, Hold a little, let us firstknow ofhim what
he thinks of the Matter.
Dem. You may ask him what you please.
Soc. Theages, if we had to do with Euripides,
who somewhere says,
Wife are the Tyrantsjxho with tV iv/fe Converse.
andshouldaskhim,Euripides, inwhatdoyoufay Tyrants become wife by the Conversation of wise Men ? Ifinsteadofthatheshouldtellus, Wifearethe'Plow-men, zvbowitht)fwifeConverse, we should not fail to ask him, in what are rhe Plow-men render'd wife ? Do you think he would give us any otljer answer than that they are render'd wise in that which belongs to Husbandry ?
The. No:HewouldgivenootherAnswer.
% This isan Ironie of Socrates founded on what Dtmodic*s said acthebeginningof thisDiscourse, vi\. thathisSon had an Ambi tionthatwasnotdishonourable. MarjiiutsRinniuand DrSims were equally mistaken here ; and not perceiving the Ironie corrup ted this Passage by their Trans! ition.
ibUheira. ist-,*>hich
stSS*'-* calls"""'
,
S2 Soc.
? ? 160
THE AGES }or,
Soc. Andifheshouldtellus,
Wife are the Cooks, who with the wife Converse, andweshouldaskhimwhereintheyaremadewife? What do you think he would answer ? Would he not say they are made wise in the Art of Cookery ?
The. Without doubt.
Soc. And if he should say,
Wife are the Wrefllers', who with tV wife Con
verse: '?
Would he not upon the Repetition of the same
Question give us the fame Reply, that theyare made expertintheArtofWrestling? The. Yescertainly.
Soc. Thisbeingso,sincehetellsus, >
Wife are the Tyrants, who with tV wife Con verse :
. If we should ask him, Euripides, in what are those Tyrants render'd wise ? What answer do you think he would make us? in what would he make thisWisdomconsist? The. IprotestIcan'ttell.
Soc. Shall I tell you then?
The. Withallmyheart,ifyouplease.
Soc. He would say they were made wise in that
Art which Anacreon tells us, * the wife Callicrete knew perfectlywell. Don'tyourememberhisSongs?
The. Ido remember it.
Soc. Wellthendon'tyoudesiretobecommittedto theCareofsomeMan, whoisofthefameProfefli- ? on with this Virgin of Cyane, and knows like her
theArtof forming Tyrants, that you may become ourTyrant,audthatofthewholeCity? \
The. Socrates, you have play'd and jested on me a great while.
Soc. How ! Don't you fay you desire to acquire that Science which will teach you to govern all the Citizens ? Can you govern them without becoming their Tyrant ?
The* I could heartily wiih to become the Tyrant
* ThiswasaVirginwhoernploy'dherseisinteachingPoliticks, as Afpssia, Victim}, and some others did after her. The Verses whir-li Anacrton made on her arelost,
of
? ? Of WISDOM. . i6t
ofallMankind, andifthatbetoomuch, atleast ofthegrearestpartof'em;andIbelieve, Socrates, youwouldhavethe sameAmbitionaswelLasallother M e n : N a y perhaps it would so little content you to
be a Tyrant, that,you would be a God ; but I did xbisit not tell you that that was the thing I desir'd. famdtd on
Soc. What is it you desire ? Don't you fay you wb* So- desiretogovernCitizens? " ' ? *? **? *?
The. NottogovernthembyforceasTyrantsdo^thatMm
but by theirown Consent, as those great Men haxejbnldU- done which we have had in this City. **<<? to
Soc. What! asThemistocles, Pericles, Qmon,J5*<<J*'
andothergreatPoliticianshavedone? The. Yes.
Soc. Well then, if you had a mind to become very expert in the Art of Horsemanship, to what Mendoyouthinkyououghttoapplyyour. selfto become a good Horse-man ? Would you go to any other than Querries ?
The. Nocerrainly. *
Soc. Would you not make choice of the best Querries ; those that have the greatest Number of Horses i and such as ride not only their o w n Horses, butthoseofotherMen? ? .
The. Without doubt I should choose such.
q^ ^
Soc, And if you would become very expert at. /hooting, would you not address your self to the bestArchers;and tosuchasbestknowhowtouse all forts of Bows and Arrows ?
The. Yes, certainly.
Soc. Tell me then, since you have a mind to be come expert inPoliticks , do you think you can ac* quire this Skill in addressing your self to any beside great Politicians, who have a depth of Judgment in this. Science, and know how to conduct, not only their own City, but many others as well of the Greeks as the Barbarians. ^Or do you think by conver singwith any other fort of Persons, to become as expert a,s these great M e n ?
? The. Socrates. I have heard talk of some Dis
, S 3 courses
? ? %6i
. THEAGES. , or,
?
courses of yours t, which you made (as *tis said) to shew, that * the Sons of these great Politicians were no better than the Sons ofCobleoe-, and asfar asIcanjudg,'t'tsanundeniableTruth. Ishould
therefore be a great Fool to believe that any one of
'em,couldgivemehisWisdom,whichhedidnot
communicate to hisown Son, and which he ought tohavebestow'donhimmuchrather,ifhewereca
pable of doing it, than on a Stranger.
Soc. What would yo do then, Theages^ ifyou had a
Son that follow'd you so closely every day, telling you' hehadamindtobeagreatPainter? andcomplained continually that y o u w h o w e r e his Father, w o u l d not beartheleastexpencetosatisfyhisdesire$ while on the other sidehe despis'd the mostexcellentMas ters,and refus'd to go to School to 'em to learn their Art? Ilaythefameifhehadamindtoplaywell o n t h e F l u t e , o r t o b e a n e x c e l l e n t H a r p e r ? , s h o u l d
youknowanyotherway togratifyhim,oranyother People to send hinrto ; when he should refuse such Masters?
The. For m y part I know not what could be done.
Soc. This is exactly the fame course that you take with your . Father : H o w then can you be liirpriz'd and complain, that he knows not what to do with you,norwheretofendyoutomakeyouanAccom
plishedMan? icritlieswhollyatyourownDoor. If
you will, he will immediately put you under the "Conduct of our best Masters ; and such as are most expertinPoliticks: Youhave nothingtodo butto choose your Teacher; They'll ask nothing of you. Sothatyoumay laveyourMoney,andacquirewith them more Reputation among the People, t than
you can obtain in the Conversation of any other.
* AllrhosegreatPoliticianscouldnotteachtheirChildrento, he wife-, a sure sign that Wisdom can't be taught; there ii no thingof itinMan, butwhatGod putsintohim,asSocratesproves inorc ar ! ,:rge in his . vinsn.
t For-the common People are very illJudges, and may be ea sily iltcc iv'd, hey constantly t-ke those -Men for the most wi<? a'gd. skillful, who are most bold and insolent,
? ? ,0f WISDOM. 263
The. Well then, Socrates, are not you likewise one of those Great M e n >if youll suffer. me to attend you 'tisenough, I'llseekfornootherMaster.
Soc. WhatisthatyoufayTheages?
Dem. AhSocrates, MySonhaslaidverywell,
andyouwoulddomeagreatKindness! No,Ihave
nogreaterHappinessthantofeemy Sonpleasdwith y o u r C o m p a n y ? ,< a n d t h a t y o u a f e s o g o o d a s t o p e r
mithimtotakethisLiberty. Iamafham'd'tofay
how much I desire it; but I entreat you both for
God's fake, you, Socrates, to receive m y Son ; aud
yort, Son, never to seek any other Master than So
crates. Bythismeansyou'llbothdelivermefromSocrates my greatestTroubleandFears. ForIam continu-wafthm
allyreadytodiewith FearlestmySonshouldfall^rdy^PirfL into the Hands of some Person that will corrupt him. atAthens, The. Well, Sir, you may lay aside your Fears on *** TMkom
myaccount,ifyouarebuthappyenoughtopersuade*/?
