I see that, with that
Peripatetic
brain of yours, you have learnt little or nothing from what Teofilo said yesterday about the essence and potency of matter.
Bruno-Cause-Principle-and-Unity
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
.
Iwouldliketoknowwhatyouwereinthemiddleofmulling over alone.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . AsIwasinmylittleinteriortempleoftheMuses,ineum, qui apud Aristotelem est, locum incidi [I fell upon this passage in Aristotle], in the first book of the Physics, at the end, where the philosopher, wishing to elucidate what primary matter is, compares it to the female sex - that sex, I mean, which is intractable, frail, capricious, cowardly, feeble, vile, ignoble, base, despicable, slovenly, unworthy, deceitful, harmful, abusive, cold, misshapen, barren, vain, confused, senseless, treacherous, lazy, fetid, foul, ungrateful, truncated, mutilated, imperfect, unfinished, deficient, inso- lent, amputated, diminished, stale, vermin, tares, plague, sickness, death:
Messo tra noi da la natura e Dio per una soma e per un grave fio. 9
[By nature and by God among us sent As a burden and heavy punishment. ]
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . I know you say this more to exercise yourself in the art of elocution and to show how ample and eloquent you are, than because you actually feel what you put into words. You humanists, who dub yourselves professors of the liberal arts, when you have gorged to the breaking point on notions, are in the habit of discharging them on poor women; just as when some other bile weighs on you, you pour it out onto the first student of yours who makes a mistake. But beware, you Orpheuses, of the furious wrath of the Thracian women.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . IamPoliinnio,notOrpheus.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Then,youdonotreallycondemnwomen?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Minime, minime quidem [Not at all, indeed not at all]: I
speak truly and mean nothing but what I say; for I do not (sophistarum more) [following the Sophists' custom], make a profession of demonstrating that white is black.
9 Ariosto, Orlando furioso, ? ? ? ? ? , ? ? ? , quoted from memory. The actual lines run: 'Credo che t'abbia la Natura e Dio / prodotto, o scelerato sesso, al mondo / per una soma, per un grave fio'.
? ? ?
Fourth dialogue
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Whydoyoudyeyourbeardthen?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Ingenue loquor [I speak sincerely], however, and I say that a man without a woman is like one of the intelligences; qui non duxit uxorum [he who has not taken a wife] is a hero, a demigod.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Heisalsolikeanoyster,amushroom,atruffle. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Whencethelyricpoethasdivinelydeclared:
Credite, Pisones, melius nil caelibe vita. 10
[Believe me, O Pisones, there is no happier life than that of a celibate. ]
And if you want to know the reason, listen to Secundus11 the philosopher: 'Woman', he says, 'is an obstacle to calm, a continual havoc, daily warfare, a life-prison, a domestic storm, the shipwreck of man. ' The man from Biscay12 confirmed this when, angered by a terrible and furious storm at sea, at his wit's end he turned on the waves with a fierce and menacing look, saying, 'Ah, sea, sea, if only I could saddle you with a wife! ' - to imply that woman is the tempest of tempests. That is why Protagoras, when asked why he had given his daughter to one of his enemies, replied that he could do him no greater harm than to furnish him with a wife. What is more, that good Frenchman won't call me to task when I say that when he received the order from Cicala,13 the ship's master (with all those on board during a dangerous storm at sea), to throw their heaviest things overboard, he heaved his wife over at once.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . But you do not report the opposing cases of those who are very satisfied with their wives, among whom, under this very roof (to avoid going further), Monsieur Mauvissie`re. He has met with one who is not only endowed with uncommon physical beauty, which is veil and mantle of her soul, but who, furthermore, thanks to the triumvirate of penetrating judgement, heedful modesty, and very noble courtesy, holds her spouse's spirit bound with an indissoluble knot and has the ability to captivate all who meet her. And what will you say of her noble daughter, who has seen the light for scarcely a lustre and a year? You cannot tell whether his wife is from Italy, France or England, such is her linguistic talent; as for her touch with musical instruments, you cannot tell if she is a corporeal or incorporeal being; as regards her gifted manners, you wonder if she has really come of earth or dropped from the heavens. Everyone sees that
10 Horace, Epistles, ? , ? , ? ? and ? ? , ? , ? . 11 Secundus of Athens, philosopher of the second century.
12 Biscay merchants frequented England's ports at the time.
13 Identified as a friend of Giovan Bruno, the author's father.
? ? ?
Cause, principle and unity
? in her, just as the blood of her parents has mingled to produce her beautiful body, the virtues of their heroic spirits have fused to forge her extraordinary spirit.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Rara avis [Rare bird], that Marie de Bochetel. Rara avis, that Marie de Castelnau. 14
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . That rare you use for women can just as well be applied to men.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Togetbacktothepoint,awomanisbutmatter. Ifyoudo not know what a woman is because you do not know what matter is, study the Peripatetics a little; they will teach you what a woman is by teaching you about matter.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? .
I see that, with that Peripatetic brain of yours, you have learnt little or nothing from what Teofilo said yesterday about the essence and potency of matter.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Be that as it may. I hold to the point that one must con- demn the appetite of both woman and matter, which is the cause of all evil, all affliction, defect, ruin and corruption. Do you not think that, if matter were satisfied with its present form, no alteration or affliction would hold sway over us, we would not die, we would be incorruptible and eternal?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Andwhatwouldyousayifitweresatisfiedwiththeformit had fifty years ago? Would you be Poliinnio? If it had remained what it was forty years ago, would you be so adulterous (I mean, adult), so perfect and so learned? Thus, just as you are pleased that your other forms have given way to the current one, so it is nature's will, which orders the universe, that all forms yield to all others. Not to mention that it is much more dignified for that substance, which is our substance, to become everything by receiv- ing all forms, than to remain fragmentary by holding onto only one. In that way, it shares a likeness with that which is all, in all.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . It seems to be you are shedding your natural habits and beginning to be learned. Apply yourself, if you can, a simili [by similitude], to showing the dignity to be found in woman.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . ThatIwilldoeasily. ButhereisTeofilo.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . And Dicsono. Another time, then. De iis hactenus [Let us stop there].
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Have we not seen that the Peripatetics, like the Platonists, divide substance by the specific difference of corporeal and incorporeal? Just as these specific differences are reduced to the potency of a single 14 Refers to the same woman, Marie de Castelnau, ne? e Bochetel.
? ? ?
Fourth dialogue
? genus, so the forms must be of two kinds: some are transcendent, that is, higher than genus, and are called principles, such as 'entity', 'unity', 'one', 'thing', 'something', and their like; other forms belong to a given insofar as it is distinct from another genus, such as 'substantiality' and 'accidentality'. The forms of the first sort do not distinguish matter or make of matter here one thing, there another, but, as absolutely universal terms embracing cor- poreal as well as incorporeal substances, they signify the absolutely uni- versal, absolutely common and undivided matter of both. Moreover, as Avicebron has said, 'Just as we identify the matter of the substantial form (matter which is part of the composite), before we identify the matter of the accidental forms (that is, the composite), what prevents us, before recognizing the matter that is contracted under corporeal forms, from rec- ognizing a single potency, which is distinguishable through the form of corporeal nature and that of incorporeal nature, the one dissoluble, the other indissoluble? ' Again, if everything that exists (beginning with the supreme and sovereign being) possesses a certain order and constitutes a hierarchy, a ladder where one climbs from the composite to the simple things, and from those to the most simple and absolute things, by means of proportional and copulative middle terms which participate in the nature of the one and the other extreme, yet possess their own, independent value, there is no order which does not involve a certain participation, nor par- ticipation which does not involve a certain union, nor union which does not involve a certain participation. It is therefore necessary that there be a sin- gle principle of subsistence for all existing things. Add to this the fact that reason, itself, cannot help presupposing, for anything which can be differentiated, something undifferentiated (I speak of things that exist, for I do not think the distinction between 'being' and 'non-being' is real, but merely verbal and nominal). This undifferentiated thing is a common nature to which the difference, the distinctive form, is joined. And surely one cannot deny that, since everything sensible presupposes a substratum of sensible matter, everything intelligible presupposes a substratum of intelligible matter. Therefore, something must exist which corresponds to the common nature of the one and the other substratum, for every essence is necessarily founded on some being, except for the first essence, which is identical with its being, since its potency is its act, and since it is all it can be, as we said yesterday. What is more, if matter is not a body (in the opinion of our adversaries, themselves), but by its nature precedes the cor- poreal being, why, then, would it be so inimical to the substances called
? ?
Cause, principle and unity
? incorporeal? Peripatetics are not lacking who hold that, just as in corporeal substances something formal and divine is found, so in divine substances something material should be found, so that the lower things should con- form with the higher, and the order of the former should depend on that of the latter. As for the theologians, although some are nurtured on Aristotelian doctrine, if they will concede that they are more indebted to Scripture than to philosophy and natural reason, they should not be annoyed with me concerning this point. 'Do not worship me', said one of their angels to the patriarch Job, 'for I am your brother. '15 Now, if the one who pronounces these words is an intellectual substance (for that it how they conceive it), and if he claims by his words that the man and he, him- self, share in the reality of a substratum, whatever their formal differences may be, it follows that the oracle of these theologians testifies in favour of the philosophers.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . I know you say that with reverence, since you know that it does not suit us to go begging in places outside our domain.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . You speak well and truly. But I did not bring in that refer- ence to prove or confirm a point, but as far as possible to spare myself a scruple. I am just as afraid of appearing to be an enemy of theology as I am to be one.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Discerning theologians will always admit natural reasons, whatever course they may take, as long as those arguments do not go against divine authority.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Myargumentsareandeverwillbethesame.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Good. Pleasegoon.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Plotinus, also, in his book on matter16 says that 'if there is a
multitude and a plurality of species in the intelligible world, there must be something common underlying the peculiarity and the difference of each. That which is common has the function of matter; that which is individ- ual and which differentiates them has the function of form'. He adds that 'if this sensible world is an imitation of the intelligible one, the composi- tion of one is an imitation of that of the other. Moreover, if the intelligible world lacked diversity, it would lack order, and if it lacked order, it would possess neither beauty nor ornament. All this is related to matter'. This is why the superior world should not be deemed totally indivisible, but in
15 The angel does not speak to Jacob, but to Saint John in Apocalypse, ? ? ? , ? ? , where, in any case, it is clear that the angel's speech is addressed not to Jacob, but to John himself.
16 Enneads, ? ? , ? , ? .
? ? ?
Fourth dialogue
? some ways divisible and differentiated - a division and a differentiation which are incomprehensible if there is not some underlying matter. And, although I claim that all this multiplicity comes together in a single indi- visible being which is beyond any kind of dimension, I still assert that this being is the matter in which so many forms are united. Before it was con- ceived as being varied and multiform, it was conceived uniformly, and before being conceived as formed, it was conceived as unformed.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . You have briefly set out many strong arguments enabling you to conclude that there is a single matter, a single potency, by which everything that exists does so in act. You also show that this applies equally to both corporeal and incorporeal substances, since the former have their being through their capacity to be, in the same way that the latter, through their capacity to be, have their being: all of which you have demonstrated by other strong arguments to those who ponder them deeply and fully grasp them. Even so, I would like you to spell out (if not for the sake of per- fecting the doctrine, then at least for clarification) how there can be any- thing unformed and indeterminate in those most excellent beings which are the incorporeal things. How can they share in the same matter, without the advent of form and act resulting in bodies? How, when there is no muta- tion, generation, or corruption, can you say there is matter, when matter has never been posited for any other ends? How can we say that the intel- ligible nature is simple, and yet claim that matter and act are in it? I do not ask these questions on my own behalf, for whom the truth is clear; I ask, perhaps, for others who may be reluctant and difficult, like masters Poliinnio and Gervasio, for example.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? .
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . AsIwasinmylittleinteriortempleoftheMuses,ineum, qui apud Aristotelem est, locum incidi [I fell upon this passage in Aristotle], in the first book of the Physics, at the end, where the philosopher, wishing to elucidate what primary matter is, compares it to the female sex - that sex, I mean, which is intractable, frail, capricious, cowardly, feeble, vile, ignoble, base, despicable, slovenly, unworthy, deceitful, harmful, abusive, cold, misshapen, barren, vain, confused, senseless, treacherous, lazy, fetid, foul, ungrateful, truncated, mutilated, imperfect, unfinished, deficient, inso- lent, amputated, diminished, stale, vermin, tares, plague, sickness, death:
Messo tra noi da la natura e Dio per una soma e per un grave fio. 9
[By nature and by God among us sent As a burden and heavy punishment. ]
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . I know you say this more to exercise yourself in the art of elocution and to show how ample and eloquent you are, than because you actually feel what you put into words. You humanists, who dub yourselves professors of the liberal arts, when you have gorged to the breaking point on notions, are in the habit of discharging them on poor women; just as when some other bile weighs on you, you pour it out onto the first student of yours who makes a mistake. But beware, you Orpheuses, of the furious wrath of the Thracian women.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . IamPoliinnio,notOrpheus.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Then,youdonotreallycondemnwomen?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Minime, minime quidem [Not at all, indeed not at all]: I
speak truly and mean nothing but what I say; for I do not (sophistarum more) [following the Sophists' custom], make a profession of demonstrating that white is black.
9 Ariosto, Orlando furioso, ? ? ? ? ? , ? ? ? , quoted from memory. The actual lines run: 'Credo che t'abbia la Natura e Dio / prodotto, o scelerato sesso, al mondo / per una soma, per un grave fio'.
? ? ?
Fourth dialogue
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Whydoyoudyeyourbeardthen?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Ingenue loquor [I speak sincerely], however, and I say that a man without a woman is like one of the intelligences; qui non duxit uxorum [he who has not taken a wife] is a hero, a demigod.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Heisalsolikeanoyster,amushroom,atruffle. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Whencethelyricpoethasdivinelydeclared:
Credite, Pisones, melius nil caelibe vita. 10
[Believe me, O Pisones, there is no happier life than that of a celibate. ]
And if you want to know the reason, listen to Secundus11 the philosopher: 'Woman', he says, 'is an obstacle to calm, a continual havoc, daily warfare, a life-prison, a domestic storm, the shipwreck of man. ' The man from Biscay12 confirmed this when, angered by a terrible and furious storm at sea, at his wit's end he turned on the waves with a fierce and menacing look, saying, 'Ah, sea, sea, if only I could saddle you with a wife! ' - to imply that woman is the tempest of tempests. That is why Protagoras, when asked why he had given his daughter to one of his enemies, replied that he could do him no greater harm than to furnish him with a wife. What is more, that good Frenchman won't call me to task when I say that when he received the order from Cicala,13 the ship's master (with all those on board during a dangerous storm at sea), to throw their heaviest things overboard, he heaved his wife over at once.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . But you do not report the opposing cases of those who are very satisfied with their wives, among whom, under this very roof (to avoid going further), Monsieur Mauvissie`re. He has met with one who is not only endowed with uncommon physical beauty, which is veil and mantle of her soul, but who, furthermore, thanks to the triumvirate of penetrating judgement, heedful modesty, and very noble courtesy, holds her spouse's spirit bound with an indissoluble knot and has the ability to captivate all who meet her. And what will you say of her noble daughter, who has seen the light for scarcely a lustre and a year? You cannot tell whether his wife is from Italy, France or England, such is her linguistic talent; as for her touch with musical instruments, you cannot tell if she is a corporeal or incorporeal being; as regards her gifted manners, you wonder if she has really come of earth or dropped from the heavens. Everyone sees that
10 Horace, Epistles, ? , ? , ? ? and ? ? , ? , ? . 11 Secundus of Athens, philosopher of the second century.
12 Biscay merchants frequented England's ports at the time.
13 Identified as a friend of Giovan Bruno, the author's father.
? ? ?
Cause, principle and unity
? in her, just as the blood of her parents has mingled to produce her beautiful body, the virtues of their heroic spirits have fused to forge her extraordinary spirit.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Rara avis [Rare bird], that Marie de Bochetel. Rara avis, that Marie de Castelnau. 14
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . That rare you use for women can just as well be applied to men.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Togetbacktothepoint,awomanisbutmatter. Ifyoudo not know what a woman is because you do not know what matter is, study the Peripatetics a little; they will teach you what a woman is by teaching you about matter.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? .
I see that, with that Peripatetic brain of yours, you have learnt little or nothing from what Teofilo said yesterday about the essence and potency of matter.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Be that as it may. I hold to the point that one must con- demn the appetite of both woman and matter, which is the cause of all evil, all affliction, defect, ruin and corruption. Do you not think that, if matter were satisfied with its present form, no alteration or affliction would hold sway over us, we would not die, we would be incorruptible and eternal?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Andwhatwouldyousayifitweresatisfiedwiththeformit had fifty years ago? Would you be Poliinnio? If it had remained what it was forty years ago, would you be so adulterous (I mean, adult), so perfect and so learned? Thus, just as you are pleased that your other forms have given way to the current one, so it is nature's will, which orders the universe, that all forms yield to all others. Not to mention that it is much more dignified for that substance, which is our substance, to become everything by receiv- ing all forms, than to remain fragmentary by holding onto only one. In that way, it shares a likeness with that which is all, in all.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . It seems to be you are shedding your natural habits and beginning to be learned. Apply yourself, if you can, a simili [by similitude], to showing the dignity to be found in woman.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . ThatIwilldoeasily. ButhereisTeofilo.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . And Dicsono. Another time, then. De iis hactenus [Let us stop there].
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Have we not seen that the Peripatetics, like the Platonists, divide substance by the specific difference of corporeal and incorporeal? Just as these specific differences are reduced to the potency of a single 14 Refers to the same woman, Marie de Castelnau, ne? e Bochetel.
? ? ?
Fourth dialogue
? genus, so the forms must be of two kinds: some are transcendent, that is, higher than genus, and are called principles, such as 'entity', 'unity', 'one', 'thing', 'something', and their like; other forms belong to a given insofar as it is distinct from another genus, such as 'substantiality' and 'accidentality'. The forms of the first sort do not distinguish matter or make of matter here one thing, there another, but, as absolutely universal terms embracing cor- poreal as well as incorporeal substances, they signify the absolutely uni- versal, absolutely common and undivided matter of both. Moreover, as Avicebron has said, 'Just as we identify the matter of the substantial form (matter which is part of the composite), before we identify the matter of the accidental forms (that is, the composite), what prevents us, before recognizing the matter that is contracted under corporeal forms, from rec- ognizing a single potency, which is distinguishable through the form of corporeal nature and that of incorporeal nature, the one dissoluble, the other indissoluble? ' Again, if everything that exists (beginning with the supreme and sovereign being) possesses a certain order and constitutes a hierarchy, a ladder where one climbs from the composite to the simple things, and from those to the most simple and absolute things, by means of proportional and copulative middle terms which participate in the nature of the one and the other extreme, yet possess their own, independent value, there is no order which does not involve a certain participation, nor par- ticipation which does not involve a certain union, nor union which does not involve a certain participation. It is therefore necessary that there be a sin- gle principle of subsistence for all existing things. Add to this the fact that reason, itself, cannot help presupposing, for anything which can be differentiated, something undifferentiated (I speak of things that exist, for I do not think the distinction between 'being' and 'non-being' is real, but merely verbal and nominal). This undifferentiated thing is a common nature to which the difference, the distinctive form, is joined. And surely one cannot deny that, since everything sensible presupposes a substratum of sensible matter, everything intelligible presupposes a substratum of intelligible matter. Therefore, something must exist which corresponds to the common nature of the one and the other substratum, for every essence is necessarily founded on some being, except for the first essence, which is identical with its being, since its potency is its act, and since it is all it can be, as we said yesterday. What is more, if matter is not a body (in the opinion of our adversaries, themselves), but by its nature precedes the cor- poreal being, why, then, would it be so inimical to the substances called
? ?
Cause, principle and unity
? incorporeal? Peripatetics are not lacking who hold that, just as in corporeal substances something formal and divine is found, so in divine substances something material should be found, so that the lower things should con- form with the higher, and the order of the former should depend on that of the latter. As for the theologians, although some are nurtured on Aristotelian doctrine, if they will concede that they are more indebted to Scripture than to philosophy and natural reason, they should not be annoyed with me concerning this point. 'Do not worship me', said one of their angels to the patriarch Job, 'for I am your brother. '15 Now, if the one who pronounces these words is an intellectual substance (for that it how they conceive it), and if he claims by his words that the man and he, him- self, share in the reality of a substratum, whatever their formal differences may be, it follows that the oracle of these theologians testifies in favour of the philosophers.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . I know you say that with reverence, since you know that it does not suit us to go begging in places outside our domain.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . You speak well and truly. But I did not bring in that refer- ence to prove or confirm a point, but as far as possible to spare myself a scruple. I am just as afraid of appearing to be an enemy of theology as I am to be one.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Discerning theologians will always admit natural reasons, whatever course they may take, as long as those arguments do not go against divine authority.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Myargumentsareandeverwillbethesame.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Good. Pleasegoon.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . Plotinus, also, in his book on matter16 says that 'if there is a
multitude and a plurality of species in the intelligible world, there must be something common underlying the peculiarity and the difference of each. That which is common has the function of matter; that which is individ- ual and which differentiates them has the function of form'. He adds that 'if this sensible world is an imitation of the intelligible one, the composi- tion of one is an imitation of that of the other. Moreover, if the intelligible world lacked diversity, it would lack order, and if it lacked order, it would possess neither beauty nor ornament. All this is related to matter'. This is why the superior world should not be deemed totally indivisible, but in
15 The angel does not speak to Jacob, but to Saint John in Apocalypse, ? ? ? , ? ? , where, in any case, it is clear that the angel's speech is addressed not to Jacob, but to John himself.
16 Enneads, ? ? , ? , ? .
? ? ?
Fourth dialogue
? some ways divisible and differentiated - a division and a differentiation which are incomprehensible if there is not some underlying matter. And, although I claim that all this multiplicity comes together in a single indi- visible being which is beyond any kind of dimension, I still assert that this being is the matter in which so many forms are united. Before it was con- ceived as being varied and multiform, it was conceived uniformly, and before being conceived as formed, it was conceived as unformed.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? . You have briefly set out many strong arguments enabling you to conclude that there is a single matter, a single potency, by which everything that exists does so in act. You also show that this applies equally to both corporeal and incorporeal substances, since the former have their being through their capacity to be, in the same way that the latter, through their capacity to be, have their being: all of which you have demonstrated by other strong arguments to those who ponder them deeply and fully grasp them. Even so, I would like you to spell out (if not for the sake of per- fecting the doctrine, then at least for clarification) how there can be any- thing unformed and indeterminate in those most excellent beings which are the incorporeal things. How can they share in the same matter, without the advent of form and act resulting in bodies? How, when there is no muta- tion, generation, or corruption, can you say there is matter, when matter has never been posited for any other ends? How can we say that the intel- ligible nature is simple, and yet claim that matter and act are in it? I do not ask these questions on my own behalf, for whom the truth is clear; I ask, perhaps, for others who may be reluctant and difficult, like masters Poliinnio and Gervasio, for example.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? .
